CPL new teams speculation

[ted]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

If there was any interest couldn't Vancouver and Montreal have sold their franchises instead of folding them?

Did they actually own a franchise or was the deal between the leagues that they could have teams play in the USL? One would be transferable, the other would not.

[narduch]

6 minutes ago, ted said:

Did they actually own a franchise or was the deal between the leagues that they could have teams play in the USL? One would be transferable, the other would not.

This is a good point. 

I guess all we do know is that the CSA won't let them back in. 

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

19 minutes ago, ted said:

Did they actually own a franchise or was the deal between the leagues that they could have teams play in the USL? One would be transferable, the other would not.

There was a rumour that the Whitecaps were actively blocked by the CSA from selling to a group in Calgary who would have run the team as an affiliate. It remains to be seen if the CSA will outright block reserve teams in the years ahead if USL D1 is the venue for that down the road. They didn't in the past when the pre-CanPL moratorium was in place and have allowed MLS Academy teams into the USSDA setup. It's also hard to see how something as low key as TFC II in spectator terms also happening in Vancouver and Montreal damages CanPL, especially if CanPL is going to be able to pick up a lot of the castoffs from those teams after MLS has invested big money to develop them right through their academy years.

My point about the Fury was that if MLS reaches 32 franchises and then stops expanding, the USL Championship as the D2 will become the only realistic entry point for a lot of would be investors and large markets left on the outside looking in. If as they have stated they will do the USL also put a cap on franchise numbers then the value of a USL franchise for resale could start to escalate considerably. There are a lot of ifs on that, but it may explain why OSEG might think they are sitting on something potentially valuable at the moment and are in no huge rush to throw it away to put all their eggs into the CanPL basket.

[The Real Marc]

On 9/21/2019 at 10:51 AM, Kent said:

Obviously everyone isn't making the exact same amount, so let's say the bottom is 30k, or maybe even 25k. We aren't talking about massive raises, but an extra 5 or 10k would go a long way for players in this sort of a pay range to allow them to focus more on soccer.

Cheetah has it bang on when he said CanPL is competing with private businesses in the salary market and that's why increasing the cap won't matter.

The difference between 25k and 35k looks big on paper but in real life it's not something that's going to influence a young guy staying in the league. Anyone that leaves the league because 25k is too little is not going to hang around for 35k because that's not enough to make a living either. In both situations they're either being subsidized by family or working outside of the game.

The top end Canadian and import players have the negotiating leverage because they can leave for Europe or USL.

The bottom end players are completely replaceable. 

Any increase in the cap will go to the the top end Canadians or imports.

Edited September 23, 2019 by The Real Marc

[Aird25]

44 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

Cheetah has it bang on when he said CanPL is competing with private businesses in the salary market and that's why increasing the cap won't matter.

The difference between 25k and 35k looks big on paper but in real life it's not something that's going to influence a young guy staying in the league. Anyone that leaves the league because 25k is too little is not going to hang around for 35k because that's not enough to make a living either. In both situations they're either being subsidized by family or working outside of the game.

The top end Canadian and import players have the negotiating leverage because they can leave for Europe or USL.

The bottom end players are completely replaceable. 

Any increase in the cap will go to the the top end Canadians or imports.

A 10 k dollar raise, and a few players transferring to bigger leagues would go a hell of a long way imo. I think you’re crazy to think otherwise 

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, The Real Marc said:

Cheetah has it bang on when he said CanPL is competing with private businesses in the salary market and that's why increasing the cap won't matter.

The difference between 25k and 35k looks big on paper but in real life it's not something that's going to influence a young guy staying in the league. Anyone that leaves the league because 25k is too little is not going to hang around for 35k because that's not enough to make a living either. In both situations they're either being subsidized by family or working outside of the game.

The top end Canadian and import players have the negotiating leverage because they can leave for Europe or USL.

The bottom end players are completely replaceable. 

Any increase in the cap will go to the the top end Canadians or imports.

Replaceable.......Ongaro, Attardo, Schale, Skublak Adegubke, Pasquotti??? Plenty of those bottom end players would have something to say about that.  Making an extra 10g over a 7month season is peanuts??  I dont think the bottom salary need to be higher because these kids will go to another league, it needs to be higher so that these kids dont quit soccer before they even give it a shot.  This isnt overpaying by a few million on some big transfer, this is paying a "Henry Ford" kind of wage that make sure there is still a pipeline/pathway of young guys playing soccer.  Isnt the point of the league to grow the game, develop players, get soccer to take root with strong clubs and pathways for kids that love that game and have the drive to go to the top?? You cant choke off the talent at the bottom of the pathway.  

[Ansem]

All this talk about contracts when we have no clue what's in them... 

[Bison44]

When has not nothing anything stopped us from speculating before?  

[The Real Marc]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Replaceable.......Ongaro, Attardo, Schale, Skublak Adegubke, Pasquotti??? Plenty of those bottom end players would have something to say about that.  Making an extra 10g over a 7month season is peanuts??  I dont think the bottom salary need to be higher because these kids will go to another league, it needs to be higher so that these kids dont quit soccer before they even give it a shot.  This isnt overpaying by a few million on some big transfer, this is paying a "Henry Ford" kind of wage that make sure there is still a pipeline/pathway of young guys playing soccer.  Isnt the point of the league to grow the game, develop players, get soccer to take root with strong clubs and pathways for kids that love that game and have the drive to go to the top?? You cant choke off the talent at the bottom of the pathway.  

What has the potential to choke the pathway is the lack of a viable, uninterrupted path - e.g. league stability - and not the salaries to young pros on the first years of that path.

These guys aren't generational talent. They're not in the 1980s when you had to have an uncle with a connection to a club to get you to Europe because Euro scouts rarely travelled over here. The young guys playing CanPL are the guys that already haven't caught on in MLS or Europe.

We're dealing with mid- to low-level prospects. Of that group, anyone who is risk-averse enough to quit a truly promising soccer career because the CanPL pays 25k isn't going to be swayed to suit up for 35k and probably isn't sufficiently soccer-focused to carve out a meaningful career because, quite frankly, they know they have better options.

What the players have to say means nothing. It's about the fans. Did their nobodiness affect your interest in the CanPL? Nope.  If half those guys decide not to play CanPL next year, do you think it will affect attendance? Nope.

It's about economics, not emotion.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by The Real Marc

[Bison44]

What the players have to say means nothing. It's about the fans. Did their nobodiness affect your interest in the CanPL? Nope.  If half those guys decide not to play CanPL next year, do you think it will affect attendance? Nope.

 

Well you pick then, which one Ongaro or Attardo, which one doesnt play in the CPL this year if you had your way??  And is Canada's soccer situation better if they dont??   Are you related to Ozzie...if I didnt know better I would think you are a sock puppet.  

[The Real Marc]

16 hours ago, Bison44 said:

What the players have to say means nothing. It's about the fans. Did their nobodiness affect your interest in the CanPL? Nope.  If half those guys decide not to play CanPL next year, do you think it will affect attendance? Nope.

 

Well you pick then, which one Ongaro or Attardo, which one doesnt play in the CPL this year if you had your way??  And is Canada's soccer situation better if they dont??   Are you related to Ozzie...if I didnt know better I would think you are a sock puppet.  

Both, one, or none. It doesn't matter, and no Canada's soccer situation will not be better or worse off if one of them decides to join everyday life. I think it's possible to support the league in a positive but honest way that acknowledges its successes and shortcomings, and recognizes the things it need to change and things it can't control. I can appreciate, however, that after so many years of waiting others aren't there yet.

Edited September 24, 2019 by The Real Marc

[Stouffvillain]

It has been far too long since the new team news/speculation thread had any new team news/speculation in it.

[Ansem]

 

[Kent]

10 hours ago, Lofty said:

Yes, it would be foolish to say that. It would be even more foolish to say that a player who is making $25k is actually "worth" $30k. A player is "worth" what someone will pay him. Players in CPL today are there because they thought it was their best move and they considered the wages to be acceptable. The offer did not and does not need to be higher.

This is Economics 101 but apparently it needs to be said anyway. The advent of CPL has created a demand for Canadian talent: both by virtue of the Canadian content rule and the relative proximity of Canadian players. It is this demand that will cause the wages paid to be set at the correct level by market forces as CPL clubs seek to attract the best available Canadian talent. There is absolutely no need whatsoever for CPL clubs to just bump up wages out of some altruistic principle and nor will they do so.

Edit: Incidentally, additional CPL clubs will increase the demand for Canadian players (assuming the quota does not change) and this should cause wages to rise.

And that is why no league has ever raised their minimum salary.

[narduch]

10 hours ago, Lofty said:

Edit: Incidentally, additional CPL clubs will increase the demand for Canadian players (assuming the quota does not change) and this should cause wages to rise.

And its one of the reasons why Don Garber spoke out last week with his stupid comments. This will force the 3 MLS teams to pay more too.

[Stouffvillain]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

 

This is exactly the kind of owner you want in the CPL and the league and fans should be thrilled to have in the league.  This isn't just some rich guy looking to blow some money on a new toy.  Belan seem to be patient and methodical in starting up a CPL club.  This kind of patience and research aren't exercises one takes if they are not willing to be in it for the long haul. 

There are some on here that are upset that after six months there hasn't been any expansion announcements.  However, if this is the quality of ownership that is getting involved in the league, expansion will always be slow but the CPL will be much better for it.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On that last bit, there were supposed to be 8 teams at launch with 2 to be announced for 2020 by the time the first games were played (when they would have been added as CSA members at the CSA's 2019 AGM), so the rate of expansion is well behind the schedule that was being stated by the league's commissioner just over a year ago. Hopefully the aspects of the series that were below expectations this year get fixed next summer and we see a Saskatoon team in action in 2021.

Have to agree that Joe Belan is going about things the right way, but others with more skin in the game may see it differently. There have been rumours on Reddit that there is a bit of a rift between Joe Belan and CanPL because the groups that took the plunge by committing in 2018 resent possible investors such as Joe Belan and OSEG, who were more risk averse than they were and are in no rush to roll out the red carpet for them at this point. Whether he gets those games against CanPL opposition next summer will be a strong indication of where things are heading.

[Cheeta]

10 hours ago, narduch said:

And its one of the reasons why Don Garber spoke out last week with his stupid comments. This will force the 3 MLS teams to pay more too.

Oh, I think Garber's little passive-aggressive display there was perhaps spurred by a broader catalogue of things.  On going out-of-site conversations that maybe aren't evolving entirely the way he, or MLS, likes very much.  * puts on conspiracy theory hat*   Bigger picture stuff. 

I don't think the Canadian MLS teams give a twig about developing Canadian talent, they haven't had to, so they aren't really competing with CPL for Canadian talent so no inflationary pressure there.  At least not until there is a sea change related to the domestic content rules as they apply to the Canadian franchises in MLS.  If/when that happens look out.  CPL is going to get hammered.   

Don't get me wrong.  It will be a great day for Canadian footie and long overdue, but on that exact same day CPL is going to get HAMMERED. 

 

 

  

[SpursFlu]

Here's 2 questions to ponder

1) are there players in the CPL right now who will someday be better than a Jonathan Osorio?

2) If the CPL had exsisted 5 years ago, would FC Edmonton have 20 million dollars in their pocket right now?

[RS]

1 minute ago, SpursFlu said:

Here's 2 questions to ponder

1) are there players in the CPL right now who will someday be better than a Jonathan Osorio?

2) If the CPL had exsisted 5 years ago, would FC Edmonton have 20 million dollars in their pocket right now?

Not sure about the answer to 1, but 2 is a weird one because FC Edmonton did exist five years ago.

[yothat2]

Yeah it did .. been a club since 2011 I think 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Think that example shows that future players like Alphonso Davies probably will still gravitate towards MLS academies before they are 16 even if there is a CanPL or USL franchise in their city. There is no indication so far that CanPL are going to take the academy angle anything like seriously enough to prevent that outcome.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

3 hours ago, Lofty said:

...And if MLS ever ends the "domestic player" prejudice shown to Canadians by all USA based MLS franchises,...

You have to be good enough regardless of what passport you have. The problem has been that there haven't been enough Canadian players that were good enough to start or appear as a sub regularly in MLS and didn't have better opportunities available to them in Europe.

[The Real Marc]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

You have to be good enough regardless of what passport you have. The problem has been that there haven't been enough Canadian players that were good enough to start or appear as a sub regularly in MLS and didn't have better opportunities available to them in Europe.

When you are limited to competing for one of seven or eight roster spots, one or two of which are taken by international stars, your passport matters a great deal.

[narduch]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Think that example shows that future players like Alphonso Davies probably will still gravitate towards MLS academies before they are 16 even if there is a CanPL or USL franchise in their city. There is no indication so far that CanPL are going to take the academy angle anything like seriously enough to prevent that outcome.

For all we know more players may choose the Jonathan David route and skip MLS altogether. Nobody can say for certain 

Canadian MLS teams probably would have had him rotting on the bench in favor of some foreign veteran.