CPL new teams speculation

[SpursFlu]

Isn't David Bekham's contract with the Galaxy the wealthiest in the history of sport based on the ownership agreements that were guaranteed for the future. I'm pretty sure the Elks owner could find a creative way to bring him in to the fold without him having to put up too much time and money right now. Phonzie just brings a good energy. I think its awesome how he always goes out of his way to rep Edmonton. I don't think many people in his position would bother to do all that

Edited August 16 by SpursFlu

[Ed_S]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

Isn't David Bekham's contract with the Galaxy the wealthiest in the history of sport based on the ownership agreements that were guaranteed for the future. I'm pretty sure the Elks owner could find a creative way to bring him in to the fold without him having to put up too much time and money right now. Phonzie just brings a good energy. I think its awesome how he always goes out of his way to rep Edmonton. I don't think many people in his position would bother to do all that

I would bet on the long-term profitability of the CPL over the CFL. League has been unable to expand since I was a kid (and I am no spring chicken lol). Followed the eastern Riders when I was a boy on air force bases across Canada and West Germany. 

[Mihairokov]

We should be doing the opposite of having more CPL teams in CFL stadiums. 

[SoccMan]

Yes that’s what this league needs more teams in oversized stadiums , please no .

[Kent]

I get where you guys are coming from with your aversion to CFL stadiums, but I just want to point out the 2nd and 3rd best attended teams are Forge and Atletico, who play in CFL stadiums. The dream scenario is a newly built CPL specific stadium somewhere around 8k to 10k capacity. But if the options are CFL stadium or no team, at this point I think I prefer CFL stadium.

Edited August 17 by Kent
Spelling corrections

[K Edgar]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

I get where you guys are coming form with your aversion to CFL stadiums, but I just want to point out the 2nd and 3rd best attended teams are Forge and Atletico, who play in CFL stadiums. The dream scenario is a newly build CPL specific stadium somewhere around 8k to 10k capacity. But if the options are CFL stadium or no team, at this point I think I prefer CFL stadium.

With the exception of Calgary, Edmonton and Regina does every CFL team share their stadium with a CanPL or MLS team?  And next year Calgary (edit: Stamps) will share with a NSL team.

Edit: Correction - Montreal Als and CF Montreal does NOT share a stadium.

Edited August 17 by K Edgar

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, K Edgar said:

With the exception of Calgary, Edmonton and Regina does every CFL team share their stadium with a CanPL or MLS team?  And next year Calgary will share with a NSL team.

Montreal doesn't 

[Watchmen]

9 minutes ago, K Edgar said:

With the exception of Calgary, Edmonton and Regina does every CFL team share their stadium with a CanPL or MLS team?  And next year Calgary will share with a NSL team.

And Halifax Will share with an NSL as well, I think.

[CanadaFan123]

2 hours ago, K Edgar said:

With the exception of Calgary, Edmonton and Regina does every CFL team share their stadium with a CanPL or MLS team?  And next year Calgary will share with a NSL team.

Is the Calgary team not playing at McMahon?

[K Edgar]

5 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Is the Calgary team not playing at McMahon?

Yes, I meant another CFL team, Calgary Stampeders, with be sharing with a NSL team.

[SpursFlu]

12 hours ago, Mihairokov said:

We should be doing the opposite of having more CPL teams in CFL stadiums. 

The problem is this is Canada. Building a dream scenario stadium is next to impossible. So yes everyone wants that urban stadium, SSS, perfect size, next to transit, next to their favorite pub, across the street from their house but in Canada with the way things are done. Ain't happening 

It reminds me of a Joe Namath story when confronted for being in a bar with let's just a woman that you wouldn't expect Joe Namath to be with he replied.. look buddy, it's 2am. Miss America isnt walking thru that door

Edited August 17 by SpursFlu

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

10 hours ago, SoccMan said:

Yes that’s what this league needs more teams in oversized stadiums , please no .

Definitely strange that emulating the Halifax scenario of having temporary bleachers in a public park to get the ball rolling never seems to be on the agenda.

[SpursFlu]

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Definitely strange that emulating the Halifax scenario of having temporary bleachers in a public park to get the ball rolling never seems to be on the agenda.

I think it probably is in Kelowna 

[Kingston]

7 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Definitely strange that emulating the Halifax scenario of having temporary bleachers in a public park to get the ball rolling never seems to be on the agenda.

I think the CPL experience so far has shown that location trumps amenities.  So while having both would be excellent, it is better to have a functional stadium in a great location and improve from there like Halifax is looking to do.  Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good or whatever the current trendy way of saying that is.

[Mihairokov]

8 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

The problem is this is Canada. Building a dream scenario stadium is next to impossible. So yes everyone wants that urban stadium, SSS, perfect size, next to transit, next to their favorite pub, across the street from their house but in Canada with the way things are done. Ain't happening 

Putting up bleachers in a field in an urban area is not impossible. Halifax did it. Build the temp stadium, build consensus on something permanent, and move forward. These things won't happen if we think they won't happen. 

[SoccMan]

When it comes to expansion have to get into Quebec and now not tomorrow it’s our second largest province and where the majority of Canada’s other official language is spoken. It’s a bit embarrassing that our national league has no presence there . This should have been a priority from the start . 

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, Mihairokov said:

Putting up bleachers in a field in an urban area is not impossible. Halifax did it. Build the temp stadium, build consensus on something permanent, and move forward. These things won't happen if we think they won't happen. 

I agree. You could do Clarke field the right way I suppose. For a lot less you could tarp the upper level or not of Commonwealth. For me I just see the path of least resistance and I don't hate the CFL stadiums like others do. People point to Valour and I think the problem with Valour is they've stunk. If they were good and had some big games I think it would be a good vibe there. And no offense to Winnipeg but I think Edmonton is a much better market. I'm not saying Winnipeg is bad, I'm just saying Edmonton is better

[Mihairokov]

4 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

For me I just see the path of least resistance and I don't hate the CFL stadiums like others do. People point to Valour and I think the problem with Valour is they've stunk

The counterpoint is that Forge and Ottawa have both been fantastic but the stadium environment is subpar because no matter how loud you are you're sat staring at 15K empty seats regardless. 

The logistics of a bigger stadium are ever present, too. Opening the doors means you need a lot of security, a lot of staff, a lot of people just to open up a larger stadium. It's a lot more manpower than just opening up bleachers. Whether or not the concessions or full stadium is used the bare reqs of opening the doors are always there regardless. 

Edited August 17 by Mihairokov

[CDNFootballer]

On 8/17/2024 at 10:44 AM, SoccMan said:

When it comes to expansion have to get into Quebec and now not tomorrow it’s our second largest province and where the majority of Canada’s other official language is spoken. It’s a bit embarrassing that our national league has no presence there . This should have been a priority from the start . 

Problem is the league doesn't own or startup teams. Quebec would have a team by now if there was a viable ownership group with a solid plan. Until that happens they won't have a team, and better to wait for a strong group then have a half-assed group accepted into a poor stadium and fail. I'm sure the league would love a Quebec team (as I would, think Quebec City could do well with one), and they've talked about it. Nothing to be embarrassed about either, its a young league and still getting out of its infancy stage with 8 teams.

[Sonny Heung-min]

Announcement of a Barrie Ontario CPL Expansion bid likely to occur in early September:

Strong mayor power utilized by Nuttall to pause work on waterfront sports field (barrie360.com)

"The report also teased "a very big announcement" that will come in a few weeks regarding the Simcoe County Rovers, which currently plays home games at J.C. Massie Field at Georgian College. 

"It will be a game-changing announcement that means our city will have its only full professional sports team," according to Green's report. "Terms of the deal are being finalized between Rovers FC and the purchaser, a large global sports and entertainment enterprise."

The report indicated that an announcement is expected in early September, with the team beginning play in March 2026, just prior to the FIFA World Cup hosted in Canada, the United States and Mexico.

The Rovers' men's and women's teams currently play in League1 Ontario, and have three reserve teams playing in League2 Ontario.

To that end, Green indicated in his report the club is looking to build a 2,500 seat stadium at the former Barrie Central Collegiate property downtown, in the area of Dunlop Street West and Bradford Street."

 

Link to the full report provided to the Mayor who is now considering its recommendations:

https://barrie.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=13236676&GUID=E2BAA02D-5C3C-4DA9-8C3A-B9661639C02E

My assessment:

• The report includes a proposed location and size feasibility for a 5,000 seater stadium. I think Greens comment that the Rovers are looking for 2,500 capacity is probably just the minimum size mentioned and is not the official proposed capacity that will be submitted for approval of tax dollars.
• The start date of March 2026 aligns with what the CPL is hoping for, but would not leave much time for this proposal to be agreed by the tax payers/council/Mayor/ which ever bureaucracy is needed to sign off on it, and then for it to built.
• It appears the Rovers are about to announce serious investment from "a large global sports and entertainment enterprise", hard to guess who this could be. Maybe Red Bull or a multi club ownership structure such as John Textor? The 'Global' and 'Entertainment' component could be a misnomer, but this suggests a non Canadian entity, which is not a just in the business of soccer. 
• A 5,000 seater brand new stadium in the center of Barrie with big money ownership backing and the well run operations of Simcoe County Rovers, would be an absolute winner in my opinion. Although it is not a huge metro area, by pulling from the surrounding area and capitalizing on the lack of competition and emerging downtown of a growing city, I think a CPL team here would be a success. That is without mentioning the buy in from many former national team players that are heavily involved.

Still not an official announcement from the CPL but it is a a really big deal. I like the idea of a League 1 Canada team proving its self as a strong organization, to the point they can take in investment and ascend /expand into the CPL. It would be a great example to follow and might serve a blueprint for Ligue 1 Quebec teams for example.

Edited August 22 by Sonny Heung-min

[K Edgar]

35 minutes ago, Sonny Heung-min said:

Announcement of a Barrie Ontario CPL Expansion bid likely to occur in early September:

Strong mayor power utilized by Nuttall to pause work on waterfront sports field (barrie360.com)

"The report also teased "a very big announcement" that will come in a few weeks regarding the Simcoe County Rovers, which currently plays home games at J.C. Massie Field at Georgian College. 

"It will be a game-changing announcement that means our city will have its only full professional sports team," according to Green's report. "Terms of the deal are being finalized between Rovers FC and the purchaser, a large global sports and entertainment enterprise."

The report indicated that an announcement is expected in early September, with the team beginning play in March 2026, just prior to the FIFA World Cup hosted in Canada, the United States and Mexico.

The Rovers' men's and women's teams currently play in League1 Ontario, and have three reserve teams playing in League2 Ontario.

To that end, Green indicated in his report the club is looking to build a 2,500 seat stadium at the former Barrie Central Collegiate property downtown, in the area of Dunlop Street West and Bradford Street."

 

Link to the full report provided to the Mayor who is now considering its recommendations:

https://barrie.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=13236676&GUID=E2BAA02D-5C3C-4DA9-8C3A-B9661639C02E

My assessment:

• The report includes a proposed location and size feasibility for a 5,000 seater stadium. I think Greens comment that the Rovers are looking for 2,500 capacity is probably just the minimum size mentioned and is not the official proposed capacity that will be submitted for approval of tax dollars.
• The start date of March 2026 aligns with what the CPL is hoping for, but would not leave much time for this proposal to be agreed by the tax payers/council/Mayor/ which ever bureaucracy is needed to sign off on it, and then for it to built.
• It appears the Rovers are about to announce serious investment from "a large global sports and entertainment enterprise", hard to guess who this could be. Maybe Red Bull or a multi club ownership structure such as John Textor? The 'Global' and 'Entertainment' component could be a misnomer, but this suggests a non Canadian entity, which is not a just in the business of soccer. 
• A 5,000 seater brand new stadium in the center of Barrie with big money ownership backing and the well run operations of Simcoe County Rovers, would be an absolute winner in my opinion. Although it is not a huge metro area, by pulling from the surrounding area and capitalizing on the lack of competition and emerging downtown of a growing city, I think a CPL team here would be a success. That is without mentioning the buy in from many former national team players that are heavily involved.

Still not an official announcement from the CPL but it is a a really big deal. I like the idea of a League 1 Canada team proving its self as a strong organization, to the point they can take in investment and ascend /expand into the CPL. It would be a great example to follow and might serve a blueprint for Ligue 1 Quebec teams for example.

Barrie, ON:  "As of the 2021 census, the city's population was 147,829, while the census metropolitan area had a population of 212,667 residents." (source Wikipedia) is that enough?

Logistics: about 1 hour from Pearson International.  Close enough for the other CanPL teams but adds bit of an inconvenience for travel.

Rover's owners include Julian de Guzman, Cyle Larin, Doneil Henry, Janine Beckie and Atiba Hutchinson.  Could have provided the link to the "large global sports and entertainment enterprise"

Best of luck to the organization...

Edited August 22 by K Edgar

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Could also be the NSL. Simcoe County Rovers also have a women's team. Hope CanPL would be happy with 5000 seats but it runs counter to the narrative in Langford where they are insisting 5100 isn't enough.

[Sonny Heung-min]

26 minutes ago, K Edgar said:

Barrie, ON:  "As of the 2021 census, the city's population was 147,829, while the census metropolitan area had a population of 212,667 residents." (source Wikipedia) is that enough?

Logistics: about 1 hour from Pearson International.  Close enough for the other CanPL teams but adds bit of an inconvenience for travel.

Rover's owners include Julian de Guzman, Cyle Larin, Doneil Henry, Janine Beckie and Atiba Hutchinson.  Could have provided the link to the "large global sports and entertainment enterprise"

Best of luck to the organization...

I think a lot of CPL clubs would happily switch their current travel logistics with 1 hour from Pearson International. It is a very well connected airport.

According to this: Population estimates, July 1, by census metropolitan area and census agglomeration, 2021 boundaries (statcan.gc.ca)

Barrie metro population as of 2023 is 230,163 up 24,109 (Over 10%) since 2019. Assuming the same rate of growth by 2026 (Team Launch date) that could be 255,000.

For comparison:

CMA	2023 Population	Comment
Hamilton (CMA), Ontario	827,679	Forge FC
London (CMA), Ontario	586,059
Halifax (CMA), Nova Scotia	498,931	HFX Wanders
St. Catharines - Niagara (CMA), Ontario	462,002
Windsor (CMA), Ontario	452,208	Rumoured CPL Expansion
Victoria (CMA), British Columbia	426,370	Pacific FC
Saskatoon (CMA), Saskatchewan	335,932	Awarded CPL Expansion
Regina (CMA), Saskatchewan	260,534
Kelowna (CMA), British Columbia	239,853	Rumoured CPL Expansion
Barrie (CMA), Ontario	230,163	Simcoe County Rovers
St. John's (CMA), Newfoundland and Labrador	224,838
Moncton (CMA), New Brunswick	168,620
Brantford (CMA), Ontario	161,425
Abbotsford - Mission (CMA), British Columbia	207,438

This is a long way of saying yes you are right Barrie would be on the smallest end of the scale for CMA's to have a CPL team. Dreaming big, if you compare to established European teams Barrie is easily big enough to draw 5,000 a week, so theoretically it is possible, while I accept Canada is obviously not there yet. Finally the 2021 population of Simcoe County excluding Barrie is: 351,929. They could also draw from across the county and Toronto weekenders and Simcoe County Rovers is the perfect branding to do that.

[Mihairokov]

Something I'm not afraid of bringing up is something like summer population, where Barrie's a far busier place in the summer months compared to the winter because of cottagers leaving the GTA and heading north. Like I've said before, Simcoe/Barrie should exclusively play home matches on Saturdays to capture this crowd. It's the polar opposite of a team like York who are on a university campus which is deserted during the summer months.

The proximity to Pearson isn't that bad, honestly. Do we know if Forge fly out of Hamilton or Pearson? That would be a good comparable, and it goes without saying that Pearson has the best connections in the country for getting anywhere.

I'm bullish on Barrie just as much as I'm bullish on KWC or London. Big satellite GTA spots that don't have professional teams and which are begging for something local to attach to and identify with.

I'm hesitant about another foreign buyer entering the market. I would appreciate it if they kept the Simcoe County Rovers branding as I think it's sharp and unique in this country. 

Edited August 22 by Mihairokov

[Kent]

Good news whether this is for CPL or NSL. But whenever they are asking for government funding to build a stadium it definitely tempers my expectations.