CPL new teams speculation

[red card]

11 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

A big part of the business plan for women's sports in the long-term is to attract new fans (i.e., women) who aren't necessarily used to being regular sports customers, so I would not say that it's all about the same fans.

 

UEFA research says about 1/3 of women's football fans are new to the sport. Many haven't followed any sport previously.

There is a segment that first gets interested because of the vibes. So, some may wonder how long this type of interest can be retained over the longer run. It is maybe why DAZN research found the European women's fanbase aren't yet ready to pay to watch women's football. So, they scrapped plans to move UWCL behind their paywall this past season. 

 

Edited May 20 by red card

[Cicero]

12 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

For why it's important, all you have to do is look at the reactions of misogynists to the existence of women's sports leagues.

That does not logically follow. The existence of professional women's sports is not being impeded by misogynists, it has been impeded by a lack of interest from the public, primarily women, who will likely need to make up the bulk of the fan base. And the existence of pro women's soccer or hockey is unlikely to change the opinions of people who oppose it simply because they are women, and that shouldn't be the point to begin with.

Following your line of reasoning, another question must be asked: is there then an imperative to support pro sports that are specifically created for other identity groups? After all, the reason that women were not in pro hockey is that they are physically incapable of competing with elite male hockey players, but that's true of basically everyone. So should we have other pro leagues for people who can't compete with the elite? I'm being a bit difficult, but given the politics of the day, I don't think you can rule out someone making that argument. In the end though, relying on people feeling obligated to support women's sport is not a sustainable long-term strategy, eventually those people will quit showing up. 

[Kingston]

For those who want population numbers as part of the CPL new teams discussion, StatsCan has finally released the updated metro population data:

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1710014801

Normally they release it early in the year but this year was late.  It looks like they did a major revision instead of just adding the 2023 numbers - many of the back years' numbers have been revised and several cities have been newly bumped up to census metropolitan areas.  (A CMA is a region with a core population of at least 100 000 and a significant commuter region.  So some more isolated cities have populations above 100 000 but are census areas instead of CMAs.)

I'll let others start making lists of all the cities they think are big enough for CPL teams.  Quebec, KW, and London continue to look more attractive, however.

I also wonder why places like Gatineau, Sherbrooke, and Trois-Rivieres don't have L1Q teams.

[Mihairokov]

1 hour ago, Kingston said:

I also wonder why places like Gatineau, Sherbrooke, and Trois-Rivieres don't have L1Q teams.

Hey, i'm just waiting for L1 teams in Quinte and Kingston. A shame Peterborough didn't work out.

[Kingston]

3 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

Hey, i'm just waiting for L1 teams in Quinte and Kingston. A shame Peterborough didn't work out.

Kingston had an L1 team for the first few years of the league but it folded when the major sponsor (who was covering about half the cost) pulled out.  I do know the club that had the original team is actively looking at getting back in again over the medium term.  My understanding is that they retain some sort of "dibs" on a spot because of their initial involvement with the league.

(As an aside, I do wonder if Kingston might be better off in L1Q.  Almost all their away games would be a three hour drive to Montreal instead of the closest away games being a three hour drive to Toronto and many being much farther.)

Quinte will almost certainly not get a team.  First, it is absolutely not a soccer town.  Second, there is no "City of Quinte".  What looks like a city of 120 000 is actually a geographically dispersed collection of smaller centres with their own sporting identities based around local hockey teams.

[Mihairokov]

1 minute ago, Kingston said:

Quinte will almost certainly not get a team.  First, it is absolutely not a soccer town.  Second, there is no "City of Quinte".  What looks like a city of 120 000 is actually a geographically dispersed collection of smaller centres with their own sporting identities based around local hockey teams.

I'm well aware, but it felt better to phrase it that way rather than saying Belleville/Prince Edward County/Trenton/ etc.

2 minutes ago, Kingston said:

(As an aside, I do wonder if Kingston might be better off in L1Q.  Almost all their away games would be a three hour drive to Montreal instead of the closest away games being a three hour drive to Toronto and many being much farther.)

It's unfortunately just a deadzone and the reality of living in such a geographically large area. Although if Windsor or Sudbury can make it work I don't see why Kingston couldn't, either in L1O or L1Q.

4 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Kingston had an L1 team for the first few years of the league but it folded when the major sponsor (who was covering about half the cost) pulled out.

Curious to see how Sudbury fares with their tie-in with the OHL team. It could prove to be a somewhat decent model for larger centres with OHL teams and no current soccer presence, or at least not a lot of soccer presence.

[Kingston]

2 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

I'm well aware, but it felt better to phrase it that way rather than saying Belleville/Prince Edward County/Trenton/ etc.

It is also the first point I made, though - Quinte is not a soccer community.  Hockey and baseball.  They can't sustain a competitive club team, let alone L1.

3 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

It's unfortunately just a deadzone and the reality of living in such a geographically large area.

As a parent of three kids in competitive soccer - yes.  I spend a lot of time driving long distances for away games just for our regular league matches.

 

4 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

Curious to see how Sudbury fares with their tie-in with the OHL team. It could prove to be a somewhat decent model for larger centres with OHL teams and no current soccer presence, or at least not a lot of soccer presence.

I really hope Sudbury succeeds.  For Kingston, there is a strong soccer community.  We used to draw 500 per game for KFC when they played in the pre-corruption era CSL.  No way would a CPL team work here but an L1 side should be viable.

[MauditYvon]

https://x.com/QParisis/status/1800185552219918630

[Mihairokov]

So the push for CSS-L to go from L1QC to CPL is not being driven by the club itself but by people "around the club", which I am going to assume means sponsor(s), with the one mentioned being Crevier, the same proponent of the NSL Montreal side.

If I were to guess, based on what we're reading here, I would assume CSS-L in CPL and NSL would both groundshare Claude-Robillard.

[Big_M]

saint laurent is a public club and will stay so meaning it cant and wont be owned by the private side...would investors want to pay millions and only be sponsors and not owners or will they make their own club and aim to have a partership will saint laurent?

in 2014 a private academy partnered with montreal north soccer club to be able to enter a team in plsq...they finished last and didnt play again after that season...one of their players was none other than saint laurent sporting director rocco placentino

[Aird25]

3 hours ago, Big_M said:

saint laurent is a public club and will stay so meaning it cant and wont be owned by the private side...would investors want to pay millions and only be sponsors and not owners or will they make their own club and aim to have a partership will saint laurent?

in 2014 a private academy partnered with montreal north soccer club to be able to enter a team in plsq...they finished last and didnt play again after that season...one of their players was none other than saint laurent sporting director rocco placentino

I know nothing about the club but what has convinced you that they wouldn't sell?

[Big_M]

in quebec clubs are tied to boroughs or cities...there are no private clubs that are sanctioned to play in the league system

[Mihairokov]

  

3 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

I had some spare time in the west end yesterday so I ventured over to Lamport to scope things out. 

For those who haven't been, the stands look like the below:

They're a very bare-bones concrete with bench seating on top. As it stands there's no markings for seating and it's usually general admission - this was how Wolfpack managed tickets, anyway. 

The press box is also bare-bones. It's possible that this area is electrified but I didn't venture up and can't confirm. The wood platforms are what would be used for camera bays as there are none built into the stands on either side for cameras to exist. 

This is an entry into the concourse underneath the stand. It wasn't open but I recall it being pretty dark and cramped when I visited previously. If there is any water damage internally like there is externally then it would need work to be brought up to professional standards. The doors on the inside still have Wolfpack branding on them. 

At the bottom of the stand there is standing water and water damage (spalling?) which would need to be resolved. There are also plants growing in some areas of the stand. 

The tiling on the exterior has holes and will need to be replaced I would imagine. Many are broken with moss and plants growing on them. The encampments on the exterior of the stadium have been removed. 

I don't know if it's possible to see in these photos but the pitch is not flat. In the first photo above the pitch works away and downwards towards the end zone. In the second photo above it plateaus in the middle before sliding away to both sides in touch. It would need to be relaid to play flat. 

Detail of pitch. Not sure how old but looks in good condition aside from the uneven issues noted above. 

Is Lamport a usable stadium? Definitely, but it needs a lot of work externally and presumably even more internally. 

I visited Lamport and posted about it in another thread - should be relevant to this thread as well. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Back in 2007 the Red Patch Boys sometimes would jump the fence and play bounce games there after watching TFC and having a pint or three at Shoeless Joe's. I may or may not have participated. All that appears to have changed since then is a better playing surface. Pity it's not unmarked. What can go wrong with the concrete 1970s era grandstands though? Know from TFC reserve games that the sight lines are great even if the bench seating is very basic in present day terms. Probably wouldn't be mission impossible to bolt on some plastic seats.

[Sonny Heung-min]

With the collapsed Saskatoon CPL team, does anyone know why the Geordie Howe Bowl was never considered as a CPL stadium? https://maps.app.goo.gl/XpvtywaLh9J1ZRs57?g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy
 

5,000 plastic seated venue newly refurbished with good turf, skyboxes and no track. As long as they can paint the football lines it would be completely in line with current CPL stadiums and wouldn’t require $28m funding. Plus a decently central location with significant parking.
 

Comparing it to the Kelwona apple Bowl, surely it’s worth at least an exhibition game. ‘The Praries invitational, Valour can be the home team.

Edited June 25 by Sonny Heung-min

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Is that not where Joe Belan's Saskatchewan Summer Soccer Series was based? The quality of the soccer at the Apple Bowl was dire because the field was too narrow to provide plenty of space for midfielders to do their thing. If there isn't sufficient extra width provided for a pro-level soccer playing surface, a CFL-style gridiron isn't necessarily going to be the answer. Personally think Halifax points the way on how to get the show on the road. Find a state-sector-owned piece of land that the city council or whatever body involved is willing to provide for a soccer-specific pop-up without charging too much money.

[Kingston]

7 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The quality of the soccer at the Apple Bowl was dire because the field was too narrow to provide plenty of space for midfielders to do their thing. If there isn't sufficient extra width provided for a pro-level soccer playing surface

The FIFA recommended field width is 68 m.

My GoogleMaps distance measuring shows the width of the green area at the Apple Bowl to be 71.6 m.

It should work for width.

[Mihairokov]

9 minutes ago, Kingston said:

The FIFA recommended field width is 68 m.

My GoogleMaps distance measuring shows the width of the green area at the Apple Bowl to be 71.6 m.

It should work for width.

You're measuring track-to-track. That means no room for throw-ins or touch.

[Kingston]

Just now, Mihairokov said:

You're measuring track-to-track. That means no room for throw-ins or touch.

I am, but with a 68 m field there would still be ~2 m on each side for throw ins. Or play with it a bit and go, say, 66 m wide and get ~3 m on each side.  GoogleMaps also says Ottawa only has 2.75 m for throw ins on the north edge of the field.  I think it's doable.

[Ansem]

5 hours ago, Sonny Heung-min said:

With the collapsed Saskatoon CPL team, does anyone know why the Geordie Howe Bowl was never considered as a CPL stadium? https://maps.app.goo.gl/XpvtywaLh9J1ZRs57?g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy
 

5,000 plastic seated venue newly refurbished with good turf, skyboxes and no track. As long as they can paint the football lines it would be completely in line with current CPL stadiums and wouldn’t require $28m funding. Plus a decently central location with significant parking.
 

Comparing it to the Kelwona apple Bowl, surely it’s worth at least an exhibition game. ‘The Praries invitational, Valour can be the home team.

They should just test Regina at this point and see how much interest there is. Valour vs Cavalry would be an obvious match up

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

3 hours ago, Kingston said:

The FIFA recommended field width is 68 m.

My GoogleMaps distance measuring shows the width of the green area at the Apple Bowl to be 71.6 m.

It should work for width.

The issue with the game played at the Apple Bowl was that they also needed to find space for team benches and technical areas inside the track in addition to the run-off and throw-in space down each wing that was discussed above.

[Mihairokov]

OT: The Prince George Cougars of the WHL are for sale. Vancouver Canucks owner Francesco Aquilini is interested in purchasing the team and moving them to Chilliwack, where he has also been trying to buy the rink from the city. Cougars were purchased for $7M in 2014 and are looking for a sale price of $8M today. 

https://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/local-news/breaking-prince-george-cougars-for-sale-team-could-move-9134811

Bringing this here because I believe the CPL expansion asking price is in that ballpark.

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The issue with the game played at the Apple Bowl was that they also needed to find space for team benches and technical areas inside the track 

Why?  They can't just put these on the track?  (Especially if it was a regular thing.  I'm sure they could lay down some astroturf or something.)

[Mihairokov]

1 minute ago, Kingston said:

Why?  They can't just put these on the track?  (Especially if it was a regular thing.  I'm sure they could lay down some astroturf or something.)

Depending on the owner/operator of the facility they tend to avoid wanting to put benches/coverings on the track as they may make indents on the track itself. 

[m-g-williams]

On 6/25/2024 at 7:13 AM, Sonny Heung-min said:

With the collapsed Saskatoon CPL team, does anyone know why the Geordie Howe Bowl was never considered as a CPL stadium? https://maps.app.goo.gl/XpvtywaLh9J1ZRs57?g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy
 

5,000 plastic seated venue newly refurbished with good turf, skyboxes and no track. As long as they can paint the football lines it would be completely in line with current CPL stadiums and wouldn’t require $28m funding. Plus a decently central location with significant parking.
 

Comparing it to the Kelwona apple Bowl, surely it’s worth at least an exhibition game. ‘The Praries invitational, Valour can be the home team.

It's been a while since I've been on the forum, so curious to hear more about the Sask team status (or lack thereof). Did things finally fall through with the redevelopment of the horse-racing track?