CPL new teams speculation

[JamboAl]

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Is it really that difficult to find junior hockey or ECHL type arenas? Unlike CanPL they have 5 out of 6 teams clustered reasonably close to each other geographically in an NHL "original 6" sort of way. Some people learn lessons from why new launch leagues have failed in the past, while others don't.

The NY team plays in Bridgeport, CT and the Boston team plays in Lowell, MA.  Neither team is super close to either urban area.  And Minnesota plays in the same arena as the Wild, I think.  Even if they draw 8,000, the arena is half empty.  I’m sure Toronto could draw much more than 4,000 but the capacity at their arena on the TMU (Ryerson) campus is just that; they probably figured downtown is better than out in Mississauga or in a far off suburb.

[Mihairokov]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

And Minnesota plays in the same arena as the Wild, I think.  Even if they draw 8,000, the arena is half empty.

They've drawn 3,344 and 2,766 for their playoff games against Toronto, for what it's worth.

 

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

I’m sure Toronto could draw much more than 4,000 but the capacity at their arena on the TMU (Ryerson) campus is just that; they probably figured downtown is better than out in Mississauga or in a far off suburb.

Playing at an undersized rink downtown is always going to be better than a suburban arena. Enough junior and minor-pro teams have died in the suburbs that everyone should have learned their lesson by now. There's a lesson here for CPL, too.

[SpursFlu]

This comparison is ridiculous. The women's league is pumped down our throat at nauseam. Put it on an app and never mention it on main stream media or cable channels. Make teams play in their home markets flying across the continent and the league would be be tits up in a month. Good on them and good luck to them but it's half charity, half political statement. There is zero comparisons between that and what the CPL is trying to do and is up against. If anything on a soccer forum people should be concerned with women's pro hockey and the negative effects it will have on pro women's soccer in Canada. Women's pro sports as much as it seems it does at times does not operate in some utopia fantasy land. There are only so many eyeballs, money and hours in the day to go around. How many places can sports fans be at one time? It's getting out of hand

Edited May 16 by SpursFlu

[K Edgar]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

This comparison is ridiculous. The women's league is pumped down our throat at nauseam. Put it on an app and never mention it on main stream media or cable channels. Make teams play in their home markets flying across the continent and the league would be be tits up in a month. Good on them and good luck to them but it's half charity, half political statement. There is zero comparisons between that and what the CPL is trying to do and is up against. If anything on a soccer forum people should be concerned with women's pro hockey and the negative effects it will have on pro women's soccer in Canada. Women's pro sports as much as it seems it does at times does not operate in some utopia fantasy land. There are only so many eyeballs, money and hours in the day to go around. How many places can sports fans be at one time? It's getting out of hand

So closer to home, will "Project8" -- the Canadian pro Womens soccer league starting in 2025 -- have any effect (positive or negative) on the CanPL?  I could see it increasing interest in the sport (marginally) but possibly competing for the same fans (to a small extent).

[SpursFlu]

2 hours ago, K Edgar said:

So closer to home, will "Project8" -- the Canadian pro Womens soccer league starting in 2025 -- have any effect (positive or negative) on the CanPL?  I could see it increasing interest in the sport (marginally) but possibly competing for the same fans (to a small extent).

What they should do is have CPL teams enter women's teams and both governed together. It would benefit both

[phil03]

2 hours ago, K Edgar said:

So closer to home, will "Project8" -- the Canadian pro Womens soccer league starting in 2025 -- have any effect (positive or negative) on the CanPL?  I could see it increasing interest in the sport (marginally) but possibly competing for the same fans (to a small extent).

IMO it will depend on how the two leagues see and interact with each other. If they see each other as rivals who fight for a bigger share in the same pie then they'll hinder each other's growth but if both league understand that they are better served by growing the Canadian game together and act accordingly, say by giving each other advertisement during games in cities where there is clubs from both, then they'll help each other.

Some people who tend to only follow men's Soccer will be convinced to give the women's game a shot and some who fans who will to Project8 game because they (accurately) believe its important to support women's sport will be convinced to give the CPL a shot as well.

[Mihairokov]

It's common for League1 sides to have matches back-to-back, often women's and men's matches.
It's also common for larger League1 matches to move to CPL stadiums prior to a CPL match, providing a doubleheader for L1 exposure.

If P8 is going to work with CPL I imagine we'll see a few doubleheaders. If P8 is determined on their own venues and own thing, or if CPL has no interest in accommodating them, then we won't see anything like this. I have a feeling it will be the latter but i'm open to being surprised.

Edited May 17 by Mihairokov

[Cicero]

8 hours ago, phil03 said:

Some people who tend to only follow men's Soccer will be convinced to give the women's game a shot and some who fans who will to Project8 game because they (accurately) believe its important to support women's sport will be convinced to give the CPL a shot as well.

Why is it 'important'? Sports is purely an entertainment product, there is no societal imperative to have people watch women's sports, or for them to have a professional league. It plays no role in advancing women's rights, they are already fully equal and in fact are more than equal (in numbers) in most professions these days. If people aren't interested, then it's clear that it isn't important, at least to the public. This narrative that we are somehow obligated to support and even prop up women's sports is pure nonsense. I also think it's a bit of a trap for leagues like the PWHL, because I find it hard to believe that the numbers we've seen this season are really organic, and at some point reality will set in. But they're backed by a billionaire, so in this case it's his dime, so good luck to him. 

Before any SJW's freak out, let me be clear that I'm not against any women's league, just that they should have to stand on their own feet like any other commercial operation, not be propped up by some misplaced public sense of obligation, or worse, government subsidies (which I don't believe the PWHL has received).

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Perhaps worrh bearing in mind that the league that is being actively propped up right now by both CMNT and CWNT related revenue streams through a sense of obligation is CanPL rather than Project 8. The narrative justifying that was a Nationalist one rather an SJW one. SJW types could justifiably point to what happened to CWNT revenue streams in that context as being symptomatic of a deep institutional gender based bias that has been ongoing in soccer for around 150 years now. 

Edited May 17 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[SpursFlu]

44 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Perhaps worrh bearing in mind that the league that is being actively propped up right now by both CMNT and CWNT related revenue streams through a sense of obligation is CanPL rather than Project 8. The narrative justifying that was a Nationalist one rather an SJW one. SJW types could justifiably point to what happened to CWNT revenue streams in that context as being symptomatic of a deep institutional gender based bias that has been ongoing in soccer for around 150 years now. 

Well the Tiger didn't go crazy. The Tiger went Tiger. If you're acknowledging they're is a gender based bias in place here even if you can attempt to justified it as retribution for gender biased in the past in the oh so important world of soccer, then I guess we agree. So it is what it is. No need to cry over it. Just keep it real. All things are not being treated equally in the year 2024

Every new business needs to be "propped up at first" basically without exception. So it's no surprise that you can spider man meme the situation. But as long as it's a free market as Canada is meant to be. I'm confident in the CPL and not too focused on anything else

Edited May 17 by SpursFlu

[narduch]

CSA has committed to provide financial support to Project 8 by the way

[shermanator]

I can see the discussions now.....

• CPL - "Do you have a wealthy owner?"
• St. Laurent - "No"
• CPL - "Do you have a stadium?"
• St. Laurent - "No"
• CPL - "Okay. Good chat."

Not sure how suitable Claude-Robillard is anymore but if the Impact played 15 years there it should be good enough for CPL. If CS St Laurent can find some solid investors and the stadium gets the green light it could be a great situation. With CF Montreal's endless PR issues I think there is a chance a club in Montreal could become the best in the league if done right.

https://x.com/joshrjhealey/status/1791544281133436931

[InglewoodJack]

 

7 minutes ago, shermanator said:

I can see the discussions now.....

• CPL - "Do you have a wealthy owner?"
• St. Laurent - "No"
• CPL - "Do you have a stadium?"
• St. Laurent - "No"
• CPL - "Okay. Good chat."

Not sure how suitable Claude-Robillard is anymore but if the Impact played 15 years there it should be good enough for CPL. If CS St Laurent can find some solid investors and the stadium gets the green light it could be a great situation. With CF Montreal's endless PR issues I think there is a chance a club in Montreal could become the best in the league if done right.

https://x.com/joshrjhealey/status/1791544281133436931

Came here to post this. Apparently investors are interested too. I hope they don’t use Claude Robillard though. Less because of its state and more that it’s relatively close to Saputo, and I would love if they kept the club in St. Laurent and had a stadium on the city’s west side. Massive population centre, lots of families, you probably pick up a segment of fans that don’t want to truck it all the way down to the east end to watch CF Montreal plus, it gives something for the community to cheer about as their own.

 

According to the article, 9 former CSL players currently play in the NCAA. They have also, of course, produced the best Canadian export since Jonathan David in Ismael Kone too. Pour in a little extra money into the club and you can see them becoming a force in the league. 

Edited May 17 by InglewoodJack

[Footscray]

Don't want to pretend to have any knowledge I don't but am definitely hearing rumors around town among the soccer community that there's some movement happening in Kelowna and the city is talking to league and perspective owners about a new stadium not at the apple bowl and in a pretty awesome spot

[Aird25]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Perhaps worrh bearing in mind that the league that is being actively propped up right now by both CMNT and CWNT related revenue streams through a sense of obligation is CanPL rather than Project 8. The narrative justifying that was a Nationalist one rather an SJW one. SJW types could justifiably point to what happened to CWNT revenue streams in that context as being symptomatic of a deep institutional gender based bias that has been ongoing in soccer for around 150 years now. 

Media and sponsorship for the men's and womens national teams, CPL, CanChamp and League 1s have largely been lumped together in order to increase their overall and collective value. Unless you can decipher what each one of those is worth individually, you can't really determine if one of the legs is propping up another.

Edited May 17 by Aird25

[Mihairokov]

47 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Came here to post this. Apparently investors are interested too. I hope they don’t use Claude Robillard though. Less because of its state and more that it’s relatively close to Saputo, and I would love if they kept the club in St. Laurent and had a stadium on the city’s west side.

I'd prefer they played in a more permanent stadium than the league having another quasi-pop-up with temp stands; even if Claude-Robillard maintains the track on-site. I don't think there's much difference between the two when they're both on the Island. Montreal is a big city and there's surely room for both on the Island.

Someone was referring to this as the CPL "promoting" CS-L and I frankly think that's deceptive. It might be nice to consider it that but it's certainly not.

Edited May 17 by Mihairokov

[shermanator]

21 minutes ago, Footscray said:

Don't want to pretend to have any knowledge I don't but am definitely hearing rumors around town among the soccer community that there's some movement happening in Kelowna and the city is talking to league and perspective owners about a new stadium not at the apple bowl and in a pretty awesome spot

There have been rumours floating around Calgary for years that Spruce Meadows are looking into a Kelowna club.

[InglewoodJack]

11 minutes ago, Mihairokov said:

I'd prefer they played in a more permanent stadium than the league having another quasi-pop-up with temp stands; even if Claude-Robillard maintains the track on-site. I don't think there's much difference between the two when they're both on the Island. Montreal is a big city and there's surely room for both on the Island.

Someone was referring to this as the CPL "promoting" CS-L and I frankly think that's deceptive. It might be nice to consider it that but it's certainly not.

CS St. Laurent specifically represents Ville St. Laurent though which is a specific borough on island, so it would be strange for them to play on the complete other side of the city- not to mention that it would be in their best interest to break ground somewhere where they can capture fans that might find it more convenient to catch their games vs Montreal’s.

 

This is all way too many steps forward though. I’d be happy with a CPL team playing at saputo if that’s what it took. 

[Mihairokov]

6 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

CS St. Laurent specifically represents Ville St. Laurent though which is a specific borough on island, so it would be strange for them to play on the complete other side of the city- not to mention that it would be in their best interest to break ground somewhere where they can capture fans that might find it more convenient to catch their games vs Montreal’s.

Totally agree with you. Not privy to any info on this so I can't provide any insight, just think that if a stadium is available that they should make a push for it instead of building a smaller one on their own. The most difficult part of creating new CPL franchises is first and foremost finding the capital (wealthy owner); the second most difficult is getting a venue sorted. I'm personally just not a fan of the Willoughby Park-pop-up scenario, or even really Wanderers Grounds if i'm being honest. There's a happy medium somewhere for CPL sides, between temp stands and CFL stadiums, and it feels like something like Claude-Robillard might be closer to that solution than other options.

Again, we have no info, but do you think that if CS-L is brought forward to CPL that they'll retain the St-Laurent name, or will CPL force them into a franchise name which is something more, ahem, regional? 😋

[shermanator]

CS St Laurent have put out a statement in response to the rumours. Not denying them but mentioning there are things that have to be put in place for it to happen. Focusing on Ligue 1 Quebec for now.

Quote

We appreciate the recognition of the CPL and their recognition of the success of Ligue1 clubs across Canada. The possibility of joining the CPL in the future is an exciting prospect, but we understand that it requires careful consideration and the right conditions for our organization to thrive. This includes securing a committed ownership group and securing a viable stadium solution, among other factors.

To date, no formal decision has been made and we remain dedicated to our mission within Ligue1 Québec. We will continue to keep our supporters and the community informed of any significant developments.

https://x.com/Csstlaurent_pro/status/1791626377772323178

Edited May 18 by shermanator

[phil03]

On 5/17/2024 at 7:43 AM, Cicero said:

Why is it 'important'? Sports is purely an entertainment product, there is no societal imperative to have people watch women's sports, or for them to have a professional league. It plays no role in advancing women's rights, they are already fully equal and in fact are more than equal (in numbers) in most professions these days. If people aren't interested, then it's clear that it isn't important, at least to the public. This narrative that we are somehow obligated to support and even prop up women's sports is pure nonsense. I also think it's a bit of a trap for leagues like the PWHL, because I find it hard to believe that the numbers we've seen this season are really organic, and at some point reality will set in. But they're backed by a billionaire, so in this case it's his dime, so good luck to him. 

Before any SJW's freak out, let me be clear that I'm not against any women's league, just that they should have to stand on their own feet like any other commercial operation, not be propped up by some misplaced public sense of obligation, or worse, government subsidies (which I don't believe the PWHL has received).

I get what you are saying but I respectfully disagree. When all is said and done sports is another sector in our economy and just like we wouldn't be cool with, say, primary education being defacto only accessible to women or construction being only accessible to men we shouldn't be ok with being a professional being only accessible to men.

 

[Ivan]

2 hours ago, phil03 said:

I get what you are saying but I respectfully disagree. When all is said and done sports is another sector in our economy and just like we wouldn't be cool with, say, primary education being defacto only accessible to women or construction being only accessible to men we shouldn't be ok with being a professional being only accessible to men.

 

Respectfully, I don't think you get what @Cicero or @SpursFlu are saying.

[MtlMario]

On 5/17/2024 at 5:11 PM, InglewoodJack said:

CS St. Laurent specifically represents Ville St. Laurent though which is a specific borough on island, so it would be strange for them to play on the complete other side of the city- not to mention that it would be in their best interest to break ground somewhere where they can capture fans that might find it more convenient to catch their games vs Montreal’s.

 

This is all way too many steps forward though. I’d be happy with a CPL team playing at saputo if that’s what it took. 

St. Laurent to Ahuntsic (C. Robillard) is not " on the complete other side of the city", It's barely a 10 minute drive. 

[Colonel Green]

On 5/16/2024 at 7:16 PM, SpursFlu said:

This comparison is ridiculous. The women's league is pumped down our throat at nauseam. Put it on an app and never mention it on main stream media or cable channels. Make teams play in their home markets flying across the continent and the league would be be tits up in a month. Good on them and good luck to them but it's half charity, half political statement. There is zero comparisons between that and what the CPL is trying to do and is up against. If anything on a soccer forum people should be concerned with women's pro hockey and the negative effects it will have on pro women's soccer in Canada. Women's pro sports as much as it seems it does at times does not operate in some utopia fantasy land. There are only so many eyeballs, money and hours in the day to go around. How many places can sports fans be at one time? It's getting out of hand

A big part of the business plan for women's sports in the long-term is to attract new fans (i.e., women) who aren't necessarily used to being regular sports customers, so I would not say that it's all about the same fans.

On 5/17/2024 at 8:43 AM, Cicero said:

Why is it 'important'? Sports is purely an entertainment product, there is no societal imperative to have people watch women's sports, or for them to have a professional league. It plays no role in advancing women's rights, they are already fully equal and in fact are more than equal (in numbers) in most professions these days. If people aren't interested, then it's clear that it isn't important, at least to the public. This narrative that we are somehow obligated to support and even prop up women's sports is pure nonsense. I also think it's a bit of a trap for leagues like the PWHL, because I find it hard to believe that the numbers we've seen this season are really organic, and at some point reality will set in. But they're backed by a billionaire, so in this case it's his dime, so good luck to him. 

Before any SJW's freak out, let me be clear that I'm not against any women's league, just that they should have to stand on their own feet like any other commercial operation, not be propped up by some misplaced public sense of obligation, or worse, government subsidies (which I don't believe the PWHL has received).

For why it's important, all you have to do is look at the reactions of misogynists to the existence of women's sports leagues.

[spinrack]

CS Saint-Laurent Responds to Canadian Premier League Expansion Rumors

https://soccerstlpro.ca/cs-saint-laurent-responds-to-canadian-premier-league-expansion-rumors/