Jacob Shaffelburg

[Bison44]

23 minutes ago, rkomar said:

I was shocked when I saw that LA Galaxy were starting one American against TFC last game.  Have the requirements slipped that much, or did LA acquire a lot of international player slots from other teams?  It's tough to see Canadians shunned because they are viewed as internationals on American teams, but then see one of those teams with only one American on it.

Its the same old same old with MLS.  Get those INT guys green cards and voila its all good.  

[CanadaFan123]

10 minutes ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

They started 3 Americans. Gasper, Araujo, and Bond.

Bond is English and Araujo is a Mexican international.

[MauditYvon]

^You know you can have multiple nationalities?

[CanadaFan123]

31 minutes ago, MauditYvon said:

^You know you can have multiple nationalities?

Yes, but we’re talking from a USMNT perspective. 

[MauditYvon]

Just now, CanadaFan123 said:

Yes, but we’re talking from a USMNT perspective. 

We are talking about internationals slot (which you can acquire via trades). But LA clubs pretty much do whatever they want.

[DrunkOffPunch]

3 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Bond is English and Araujo is a Mexican international.

Bond is a dual nat that can play for the US. You’re really splitting hairs if you say Araujo doesn’t count. Born and raised in the US and played for the USYNT and even has a senior team cap.

[rydermike]

5 hours ago, rkomar said:

I was shocked when I saw that LA Galaxy were starting one American against TFC last game.  Have the requirements slipped that much, or did LA acquire a lot of international player slots from other teams?  It's tough to see Canadians shunned because they are viewed as internationals on American teams, but then see one of those teams with only one American on it.

It's pretty easy to get international players green cards, which makes them MLS domestics

[RS]

20 hours ago, narduch said:

And that 19 year old will go right back to the bench too eventually.

You seem pretty sure about that despite the fact that Nelson has racked up over 1800 minutes this year in multiple different positions.

No, he's not a starter in a current TFC best XI, but he's the next man up in 2-3 different positions at this point. It's OK to be disappointed with Shaffelburg's lack of TFC playing time while also acknowledging that Nelson has thrived this year.

If he goes back to riding the pine in 2023 then I'll agree that he's being wasted, but given his now-proven ability to cover different spots I'm expecting him to continue to be a regular next year.

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, RS said:

You seem pretty sure about that despite the fact that Nelson has racked up over 1800 minutes this year in multiple different positions.

No, he's not a starter in a current TFC best XI, but he's the next man up in 2-3 different positions at this point. It's OK to be disappointed with Shaffelburg's lack of TFC playing time while also acknowledging that Nelson has thrived this year.

If he goes back to riding the pine in 2023 then I'll agree that he's being wasted, but given his now-proven ability to cover different spots I'm expecting him to continue to be a regular next year.

You think if Osorio and MAK are available he still starts?

I just don't get why some people try to defend this management team no matter what.

The proof is right in front of us.

He is bound for the TFC academy prospect churn too.

Edited September 5, 2022 by narduch

[SoccMan]

If Nelson is good enough and improves he might  even go ahead of Mak or even Osorio , it’s up to Nelson to keep improving. However, at the moment he is behind Osorio and Mak. He has played enough minutes this season and still has a ways to go in my opinion to become an everyday starter in the MLS. The dribbling into trouble , knowing when to keep the ball and when to pass are things he needs to improve. If in the end he doesn’t work out it will be on him not TFC management I’m sorry!

[rkomar]

39 minutes ago, narduch said:

You think if Osorio and MAK are available he still starts?

I just don't get why some people try to defend this management team no matter what.

The proof is right in front of us.

He is bound for the TFC academy prospect churn too.

We defend management because they are making decisions that benefit the team.  You seem to believe that good management would mostly play the inexperienced players, train them until they are finally good and then move them on to another league.  How does any of that actually benefit the team besides earning them some chump change from the sale?  Above all, management must work to provide an entertaining and competitive team in the league.  Training youngsters is just one part of that, not the main priority.

[RS]

31 minutes ago, narduch said:

You think if Osorio and MAK are available he still starts?

No, I don't. I already wrote that Nelson's not in the current TFC best XI, but that doesn't mean he won't get playing time. 

Between Osorio and MAK there's lots of time on offer given the injury history of both (Osorio's possibly dealing with post-concussion symptoms so it could be a while for him).

Nelson is also the primary back-up for Insigne, so that's three positions on the field that he's capable of stepping into, which is a huge part why he passed Shaffelburg on Bradley's depth chart.

36 minutes ago, narduch said:

The proof is right in front of us.

He is bound for the TFC academy prospect churn too.

So the 2000+ minutes he'll play this year means nothing? He's only a success if he displaces Osorio, MAK or Insigne in the TFC starting lineup at 19/20 years old?

I agree that Toronto hasn't done well enough with their academy overall, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the forward steps taken by Nelson this year.

38 minutes ago, narduch said:

I just don't get why some people try to defend this management team no matter what.

First off, acknowledging the positives for Nelson's situation isn't "defending this management team no matter what." That's reductionist nonsense.

I understand your narrative is that TFC sucks for young players and will always do so no matter what, and there is definitely a kernel of truth to it, but Nelson's growth shows that there's room for change. And some people prefer to look at each player's situation individually rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water.

As @SoccMan wrote, at some point it becomes the players' responsibility to grab more minutes, and Nelson has done that this season. Hopefully the others will also have the opportunity.

[An Observer]

I have watched a lot of TFC lately and Nelson keeps impressing me. He has holes but let’s remember that he is learning a new position and being pretty effective at it.  I fully suspect that he will overtake MAK by early next year if he continues to develop his engine, be more aggressive in the tackle, and improve his play in the final third both in terms of passing and his ability to put himself in position to score. He also seems to complement the Italians style very well like Osorio does.   Give him an off season to work on some of those things and let’s see next year. I really think he has the tools to put himself into the national team in 23 and play a significant role in the Gold Cup next year

[Bison44]

Several times a game Nelsen receives a pass, turns neatly and beats his man, dribbling forward and creating instant offense.  TFC has had central mids that spent years here and never did that once.  There is a reason why he was a highly touted prospect even if he does have holes in his game.  Nelsen has made great strides...the more minutes he gets the better he looks.  Cant wait for next season.

Shaff gets flak for being one dimensionable, but he sure seems to be cutting into the box and is johnny on the spot cleaning up rebounds and scuffed shots.  The change in scenery and coaching has given him a shot in the arm. I hope he stays where he is and TFC get more garber bucks.   

[CanadaFan123]

I hope Shaffelburg can stay in Nashville as well. Much more attractive than going to Deinze, Scotland or Norway. 

[BearcatSA]

Nashville looks like a good fit for him.  And with the keeper looking like he might be returning to early season form, Nashville has the playing set up to go far in the playoffs.  And if you become a key contributor to that mojo, even in a supporting role, it's that positive form that sometimes NT managers like to have in their squads.  So this might be the best opportunity for him to get to Qatar.

[solsous]

10 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Nashville looks like a good fit for him.  And with the keeper looking like he might be returning to early season form, Nashville has the playing set up to go far in the playoffs.  And if you become a key contributor to that mojo, even in a supporting role, it's that positive form that sometimes NT managers like to have in their squads.  So this might be the best opportunity for him to get to Qatar.

His playing style matches how Nashville plays.  Nashville rarely develops from the back.  The ball is quickly played to the links, then played wide.  Currently, most MLS teams like building from the back.  That  limits the traits of players like Shaffelburg.  On the other hand, TFC style play is conducive to how Bradley wants his team to play.  Therefore, Shaffelburg was not a good fit.

I said this on a previous post and maybe it wasn't clear enough, but Nashville's style of play is exciting and reminds me of the EPL.  They are simply a very fun team to watch.  When they entered the MLS, they were really boring, but something changed, maybe it's playing in their new stadium.

[Kent]

On 9/4/2022 at 3:37 PM, rkomar said:

I was shocked when I saw that LA Galaxy were starting one American against TFC last game.  Have the requirements slipped that much, or did LA acquire a lot of international player slots from other teams?  It's tough to see Canadians shunned because they are viewed as internationals on American teams, but then see one of those teams with only one American on it.

I can't remember which team, but I am pretty sure a month or 2 ago TFC played a team that started 0 Americans (based on the flags chosen by TSN to put on the starting lineup). I agree with you on the last sentence, I have had the same thought.

[Nello]

i think it was Portland, I noticed that too

 

[Shway]

On 9/4/2022 at 3:37 PM, rkomar said:

I was shocked when I saw that LA Galaxy were starting one American against TFC last game.  Have the requirements slipped that much, or did LA acquire a lot of international player slots from other teams?  It's tough to see Canadians shunned because they are viewed as internationals on American teams, but then see one of those teams with only one American on it.

Requirements haven’t slipped. The loophole (aka “The Green Card”) has been compromised. Atlanta was one of the first teams to essentially get players green cards within a year. Once a player has the now easily accessible green card, they do not count as international player on a teams roster anymore. Which is the flaw in the system.

It’s also the reason why Canadian teams were given MORE international slots because we don’t easily give out the equivalent (permanent residency) as frequently as the US does for sports athletes.

The roster rules are a joke.

[RS]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

Requirements haven’t slipped. The loophole (aka “The Green Card”) has been compromised. Atlanta was one of the first teams to essentially get players green cards within a year. Once a player has the now easily accessible green card, they do not count as international player on a teams roster anymore. Which is the flaw in the system.

It’s also the reason why Canadian teams were given MORE international slots because we don’t easily give out the equivalent (permanent residency) as frequently as the US does for sports athletes.

The roster rules are a joke.

In this case, it's less the roster rules as it is the US government's requirement for green cards. There's nothing MLS (or any league that separates domestics from internationals) can do on that front. Once a player is legally considered a domestic worker by the US government, MLS has to legally do the same.

That's without getting into the whole "Canadians as domestics" issue, which is separate in my opinion.

[Shway]

5 minutes ago, RS said:

In this case, it's less the roster rules as it is the US government's requirement for green cards. There's nothing MLS (or any league that separates domestics from internationals) can do on that front. Once a player is legally considered a domestic worker by the US government, MLS has to legally do the same.

That's without getting into the whole "Canadians as domestics" issue, which is separate in my opinion.

But that’s my issue…they need to classify a domestic player from a specific criteria like “where was your first contract signed”. Like what the EPL does.

Theres way too many of these convoluted roster rules, when it can simplified. The fact that Doneil isn’t considered an International player on American teams is an issue. The fact that Achara or even Endoh is/was considered an International player is stupid.

Your status shouldn’t change regardless if you get a green card or not. You shouldn’t be able to sign a homegrown contract and be an international player at the same time. It’s stupid to me. 

(Another one of my reasons why the Canadian teams are better of out the league, and how they are against the odds for CCL spots…. But that’s my opinion)

[RS]

20 minutes ago, Shway said:

But that’s my issue…they need to classify a domestic player from a specific criteria like “where was your first contract signed”. Like what the EPL does.

Theres way too many of these convoluted roster rules, when it can simplified. The fact that Doneil isn’t considered an International player on American teams is an issue. The fact that Achara or even Endoh is/was considered an International player is stupid.

Your status shouldn’t change regardless if you get a green card or not. You shouldn’t be able to sign a homegrown contract and be an international player at the same time. It’s stupid to me. 

(Another one of my reasons why the Canadian teams are better of out the league, and how they are against the odds for CCL spots…. But that’s my opinion)

Again, the Canadian issue is a separate one from the green card issue. And I'm with you on the Doneil thing.

You can say that a player's status "shouldn't change regardless if you get a green card or not," but that's literally what happens to workers in the US regardless of their job. The green card gives them a different status than other foreigners.

The only actual solution to that is to completely abolish all nationality-based statuses in MLS (like in the NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL, etc.). So there would be no difference between a domestic player and a foreign player at all. That won't happen, if only because no FIFA affiliated soccer league in the world works that way.

[The Real Marc]

But theoretically MLS could develop a foreign-player rule that is not based on green card status, no?

[RS]

3 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

But theoretically MLS could develop a foreign-player rule that is not based on green card status, no?

Not to my understanding, no.

It's the same up here for Canadian MLS teams and the CPL teams. A permanent resident is considered a domestic worker in the eyes of the government.

I could be wrong on this, and I'm happy to see any actual documentation to the contrary, but based on following these rules for years I don't think a league could circumvent their own country's actual labour designations.