CONCACAF Nations League

[TRM]

Lets use this to provide more games for the MLS U23 players. 

First getting them used to CONCACAF conditions would be great. Second it would give them more playing time. Third they also get to play year round including the winter off season!! That means they come into MLS preseason camps game ready giving them a leg up on their competition (at least initially). Fourth it would be 100% Canadians unlike USL, NASL, etc, and being an official match it would cap tie all the youth who played..

I think this is a great balance. The teams pay and train the players and the CSA provides games for those who haven't taken a starting spot yet. Travel and expenses would be covered by the CSA. 

[BuzzAndSting]

28 minutes ago, Jith12 said:

Would TSN get the Canadian broadcast rights for this automatically or would there be bidding for the rights?

Depends on the duration of the current deal TSN has, which I don't think was ever made public.

[Shway]

We talk as if we have proven depth to compete/rotate our squad, while trying to gain and achieve results. 

 

We have to treat this as the start of WCQ 2022, where every game counts. Or else will end up in the lower divisions. Establishing the culture, system and identity is so key. 

[Blackdude]

2 hours ago, TRM said:

Lets use this to provide more games for the MLS U23 players. 

First getting them used to CONCACAF conditions would be great. Second it would give them more playing time. Third they also get to play year round including the winter off season!! That means they come into MLS preseason camps game ready giving them a leg up on their competition (at least initially). Fourth it would be 100% Canadians unlike USL, NASL, etc, and being an official match it would cap tie all the youth who played..

I think this is a great balance. The teams pay and train the players and the CSA provides games for those who haven't taken a starting spot yet. Travel and expenses would be covered by the CSA. 

While I do want to have a certain balance in roster spots 16-23 that can be changed. I still think we need our top 15 players no matter what. We can bring some youngsters around, but it shouldn't be a U23 team. If not, we should just stop playing. The national team's goal should be to win. Also, they wouldn't play year round because it would be on FIFA dates. That would mean that they might finish their season 1 month later than they would. And if you'Re thinking about captieing, it'S not the right way to do it. You really think that a player who is thinking about not playing for us would say yes? If the player with dual nationality was getting called up to the senior national team at 17-18, he would probably decline it. It's the senior national team, not the U23 team. 

[TRM]

1 minute ago, Blackdude said:

While I do want to have a certain balance in roster spots 16-23 that can be changed. I still think we need our top 15 players no matter what. We can bring some youngsters around, but it shouldn't be a U23 team. If not, we should just stop playing. The national team's goal should be to win. Also, they wouldn't play year round because it would be on FIFA dates. That would mean that they might finish their season 1 month later than they would. And if you'Re thinking about captieing, it'S not the right way to do it. You really think that a player who is thinking about not playing for us would say yes? If the player with dual nationality was getting called up to the senior national team at 17-18, he would probably decline it. It's the senior national team, not the U23 team. 

Too many games for our top players. They mentioned Belize going from less than 14 to 15-30 games a year so this is a full on league. 

Soccer is already demanding on players especially those starting in the top leagues. Maybe 2-3 like the Olympic regulations. MLS players who are coming back from injury and need the playing time to get back to the starting 11 on their clubs, etc. 

Keep them for the special tournaments, Gold Cup & WCQ (which will be more games WHEN we make the hex next time!!) and select friendlies to get ready for those competitions which would fit into the CLoN schedule. 

[Blackdude]

Just now, TRM said:

Too many games for our top players. They mentioned Belize going from less than 14 to 15-30 games a year so this is a full on league. 

Soccer is already demanding on players especially those starting in the top leagues. Maybe 2-3 like the Olympic regulations. MLS players who are coming back from injury and need the playing time to get back to the starting 11 on their clubs, etc. 

Keep them for the special tournaments, Gold Cup & WCQ (which will be more games WHEN we make the hex next time!!) and select friendlies to get ready for those competitions which would fit into the CLoN schedule. 

It's not 15-30 games a year. And who mentioned that? It's pretty much what is replacing or friendlies. That's what is being reported right now. And if you'Re talking about Belize where did you read that?

[Jith12]

We really need to take this seriously and send our best possible squad. We don't have enough opportunities to play competetive games and we must relish the chance to get more chemistry between our A-team. If we are in the top group we must treat it like a dress rehearsal for the hex. A good result at CLoN would be a great confidence booster for the team going into WCQ's.

[TRM]

1 minute ago, Blackdude said:

It's not 15-30 games a year. And who mentioned that? It's pretty much what is replacing or friendlies. That's what is being reported right now. And if you'Re talking about Belize where did you read that?

This link "http://www.concacaf.com/article/concacaf-league-of-nations-confirmed" says 41 teams into 3 leagues so 13/14 teams a league. Home and home and there are 25 or so games that could potentially played. 

My bad to forget the link to the Belize comment. It is here: "https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/75736/concacafs-new-league-of-nations-will-shake-up-us.html"

[harrycoyster]

1 minute ago, TRM said:

This link "http://www.concacaf.com/article/concacaf-league-of-nations-confirmed" says 41 teams into 3 leagues so 13/14 teams a league. Home and home and there are 25 or so games that could potentially played. 

My bad to forget the link to the Belize comment. It is here: "https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/75736/concacafs-new-league-of-nations-will-shake-up-us.html"

That assumes the same number of teams in each league. I think it's far more likely you see a 8/16/17 split. 

[Blackdude]

4 minutes ago, TRM said:

This link "http://www.concacaf.com/article/concacaf-league-of-nations-confirmed" says 41 teams into 3 leagues so 13/14 teams a league. Home and home and there are 25 or so games that could potentially played. 

My bad to forget the link to the Belize comment. It is here: "https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/75736/concacafs-new-league-of-nations-will-shake-up-us.html"

It's 30 over 2 years. That would happen if Belize is in the final of the Gold Cup and their tournament. 

[TRM]

Just now, harrycoyster said:

That assumes the same number of teams in each league. I think it's far more likely you see a 8/16/17 split. 

If true then the CSA should be trying to get us into the on with the most games. If it is by current CONCACAF standings (we are 10th) we would be in the 16 team group. 

Why would you expect it to be that split? Geography? 

[TRM]

3 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

It's 30 over 2 years. That would happen if Belize is in the final of the Gold Cup and their tournament. 

Which is at least double what we are doing currently for the U23s. This is a great chance to get more serious playing time for those players who haven't taken a starting 11 spot. 

It is up to CONCACAF to not schedule CLoN league games during its own Gold Cup tournament. I'd hope they'd be smart enough to do that.

[harrycoyster]

12 minutes ago, TRM said:

If true then the CSA should be trying to get us into the on with the most games. If it is by current CONCACAF standings (we are 10th) we would be in the 16 team group. 

Why would you expect it to be that split? Geography? 

Geography and the fact that the league is based on the European one, which is tiered 12/12/14/15. Also, putting more teams in the top division kills competitiveness. Like at the Gold Cup the big three CONCACAF teams are going to sleepwalk through teams 8-12 and the second division becomes way worse.

Edited November 17, 2017 by harrycoyster

[TRM]

16 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Geography and the fact that the league is based on the European one, which is tiered 12/12/14/15. Also, putting more teams in the top division kills competitiveness. Like at the Gold Cup the big three CONCACAF teams are going to sleepwalk through teams 8-12 and the second division becomes way worse.

There also was mention of relegation in one of the articles I read. That would put us in the "more games" group. The CONCACAF announcement article has it. 

http://www.concacaf.com/article/concacaf-league-of-nations-confirmed

Edited November 17, 2017 by TRM

[Kent]

If we play a U23 team and don't get results, we won't even get into the Gold Cup.

TRM, to throw out your usual line whenever Canadian minutes for the Whitecaps come up, these U23 players have to take their spot on the team. It's up to them, not the national team manager.

[spinrack]

http://www.concacaf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/CONCACAF-LEAGUE-OF-NATIONS-FAQ-ENG.pdf
Will this mean more demands on players?
The League of Nations is played only during available windows on the FIFA match calendar, so it will not create additional demands on players that compete internationally on a regular basis. For players from smaller nations whose national teams sometimes play infrequently, the competition will provide the platform for them to display their talents more consistently.
----------

My suspicion is that, given the probable size of the divisions (41teams in 3 divisions means 14 teams per division, on average) a single "season" for the CLoN wil be played over more than one calendar year.  It would be impossible otherwise.

Edited November 17, 2017 by spinrack

[harrycoyster]

Just now, spinrack said:

http://www.concacaf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/CONCACAF-LEAGUE-OF-NATIONS-FAQ-ENG.pdf
Will this mean more demands on players?
The League of Nations is played only during available windows on the FIFA match calendar, so it will
not create additional demands on players that compete internationally on a regular basis. For players from smaller nations whose national teams sometimes play infrequently, the competition will provide the platform for them to display their talents more consistently.
----------

My suspicion is that, given the probable size of the divisions (41teams in 3 divisions means 14 teams per division, on average) a single "season" for the CLoN wil be played over more than one calendar year.  It would be impossible otherwise.

The European league is played over two years.

[Gopherbashi]

Yeah, if this is anything like the UEFA Nations League (and they should be similar), it'll be played over two years and each "league" will be subdivided into smaller, isolated groups.  You're not going to see a single table of sixteen teams.

Even if it's somehow an annual thing, they'll likely do groups of four to give six match days (ie. three international windows) a year.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Gopherbashi

[TRM]

45 minutes ago, Kent said:

If we play a U23 team and don't get results, we won't even get into the Gold Cup.

TRM, to throw out your usual line whenever Canadian minutes for the Whitecaps come up, these U23 players have to take their spot on the team. It's up to them, not the national team manager.

Because there is a Gold Cup every year? WCQ every year? They will be basing qualification on results the announcement says so we field our U23s and bring in the big guns when we need to qualify. 

I don't know why you frame this as a Whitecaps issue. In case you missed it there is a fellow named Hamilton who could really use this too. 

So for the players who haven't taken the spot on their MLS team there will be no USL for 2 possibly 3 of the MLS teams next year, no CPL but there is a CLoN league starting in September 2018 and we shouldn't consider using it in this fashion?

Pray tell what is your alternative to getting more high level playing time for the 18-22 group? 

[jpg75]

1 minute ago, TRM said:

 

So for the players who haven't taken the spot on their MLS team there will be no USL for 2 possibly 3 of the MLS teams next year, no CPL but there is a CLoN league starting in September 2018 and we shouldn't consider using it in this fashion?

Pray tell what is your alternative to getting more high level playing time for the 18-22 group? 

Players who haven't taken a spot on an MLS team should not be playing for the MNT. That said, Hamilton has gotten some PT and been productive with it so i wouldn't be against him being called. 

The alternative is to have a functional U21/23 program. Have a couple of camps in Europe each year to play UEFA teams during their U21 cycle (countries who may not be scheduled that window).

[Big_M]

National team is not the place for playing time, it's to get results or build to get results. Lower level players need to get a club. Not easy but very doable as did a number of fc montreal players when they folded

[TRM]

Just now, jpg75 said:

Players who haven't taken a spot on an MLS team should not be playing for the MNT. That said, Hamilton has gotten some PT and been productive with it so i wouldn't be against him being called. 

The alternative is to have a functional U21/23 program. Have a couple of camps in Europe each year to play UEFA teams during their U21 cycle (countries who may not be scheduled that window).

Glad you'd like to see Hammy get more minutes,  so would I. 

And this "functional U21/23 program" is available when and where? It isn't and there isn't anything other than USL affiliation which, given the results of Montreal+Ottawa, I think we both agree won't cut it. The MLS clubs second try at reserve teams is over so we just wait for "third time's the charm"? 

[dyslexic nam]

I have no problem rotating in a few u23s occasionally, but one big complaint with the CMNT is that they don't get to play together enough.  All of a sudden we have something like this where clubs would likely be more inclined to release players since it is more legit than miscellaneous friendlies, and we consider using it as a U23 tournament?  Hell no.  Let's use it to have our senior team play together as often as possible while giving a limited number of slots to fringe guys who warrant a look and the best prospects as they become capable of playing at that level.  Anything that looks like a wholesale move,ent to U23 would not only miss a great opportunity for our senior guys, but would likely result in us having a generally lower level of regional competition since our u23s wouldn't be expected to get the same kind of results as our senior guys.  If the u23s need more games, let's try to arrange them independent of this.

We need to generally field our strongest team, get into the highest tier we can, and wring every bit of benefit out of it as possible.  

[badname22]

would this cap tie players?

 

[Bison44]

It should!