Marcelo Flores

[costarg]

On 2/6/2022 at 10:02 AM, Unnamed Trialist said:

We have one key need: attacking, creative mids, and no real depth prospects. 

I still feel this is David's ideal spot, as you've stated yourself and I agree, his best role is not as an out and out #9.

Mitrovic, Diaz and Flores would all fit this role as well.

[apbsmith]

On 2/6/2022 at 10:02 AM, Unnamed Trialist said:

 

For some matches we need more than this, which will mean trying a classic 4-man midfield to get possession. Or to challenge some of the stronger midfield rivals who rely less on the wings (Croatia, Denmark, South Korea). That means sacrificing one or both of Adekugbe or Laryea and playing with Piette, Hutch, Eustaqiuo and Osorio. Fine. But who are their replacements? Just Kaye? Not enough IMO.

We could ask David to play attacking mid and it might be surprising

Our WC roster, in any case, should be filled by whoever can support our midfield 5. We are going to have to leave some attackers at home. 

This is an excellent point, especially with pitch sizes at the world cup. 

3-5-2 or 4-4-2 even perhaps a 4-5-1 to close out a game with the lead. 

Midfield depth will be quite important and I think this point was spot on.  

I realize the game slightly evolves every quadraniel and every team has different talent pool  to chose from..... However, we should remember France got through and lifted the WC, essentially playing a 4-4-2 / 4-5-1 through the entire KO stage.  I realize I can't compare us to France ( yet anyways ), the same similar principles can apply though. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by apbsmith

[Sal333]

On 2/6/2022 at 10:02 AM, Unnamed Trialist said:

We have one key need: attacking, creative mids, and no real depth prospects.

For one, because it's an objective defect in the pool. And also, because it'd give us a major tactical variation. As is we've pushed our creativity to the wings, and that hurts us as well as helping. Sam and Richie are not participative in midfield possession, but since we're playing to our strengths their role is to progress more directly to the strikers. At the WC expect pitches will be wide and we'll benefit in some matches.

For some matches we need more than this, which will mean trying a classic 4-man midfield to get possession. Or to challenge some of the stronger midfield rivals who rely less on the wings (Croatia, Denmark, South Korea). That means sacrificing one or both of Adekugbe or Laryea and playing with Piette, Hutch, Eustaqiuo and Osorio. Fine. But who are their replacements? Just Kaye? Not enough IMO.

We could ask David to play attacking mid and it might be surprising

Our WC roster, in any case, should be filled by whoever can support our midfield 5. We are going to have to leave some attackers at home. 

You may just be onto  something there! I think Herdman toyed with the idea of using David as a #10 in the USA game and David looked great. After we clinch our way to Qatar I would use David in that spot. His coach in Ottawa said David played as midfielder for him not a forward.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Sal333

[VinceA]

I mean this team doesn't really play with a 10 and 10s are luxuries in today's game. He will either end up wide or will need to become a more well-rounded player in the midfield when he goes into the pro ranks.

[Unnamed Trialist]

41 minutes ago, VinceA said:

I mean this team doesn't really play with a 10 and 10s are luxuries in today's game. He will either end up wide or will need to become a more well-rounded player in the midfield when he goes into the pro ranks.

It's about getting your talent on the pitch. We have attacking talent, but we can't play a 3-2-5. As is, I think a David in the middle behind Larin and Ike, for example, could work, because he would still be close enough to get into scoring position, as he did at Ghent. 

We have been alternately sitting David and Larin, objectively it's a bit nuts. If we were in a club situation, it'd be okay, lots of fixtures to mix it up. As is, we are playing where every match counts, and sitting our talent regardless. 

I think the guy to be our attacking  mid otherwise is Osorio, and he also is a decent scorer when set loose (for me, the most beautiful goal was his at Azteca, because slicing through the middle of the Mexican defence in that way, in DF, was objectively the hardest thing to do in Concacaf). A lot of these younger guys coming up, Flores, Dias, Mitrovic, all have that profile, as @costargwas saying above. 

This is the dilemna: play to your strengths, sure, let'd do it. But also create alternatives and cultivate them, because they might help you respond to a pinch. We don't have a Modric, but we can do a lot to improve our options in the middle and not be just a wing attack team. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Approve My Account Pls]

10 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think the guy to be our attacking  mid otherwise is Osorio, and he also is a decent scorer when set loose (for me, the most beautiful goal was his at Azteca, because slicing through the middle of the Mexican defence in that way, in DF, was objectively the hardest thing to do in Concacaf)

This is actually a great point I hadn't thought of until now. This and maybe Atiba vs. ES at home are our only goals not scored from the counter-attack, crosses, or set pieces (or goalie error with JD vs Costa Rica)

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

This is actually a great point I hadn't thought of until now. This and maybe Atiba vs. ES at home are our only goals not scored from the counter-attack, crosses, or set pieces (or goalie error with JD vs Costa Rica)

Or the Larin goal from the Johnston rebound, from a high press. Or Larin vs the US, could also say it's a press and passing through the middle. 

I recognize that playing through the middle and scoring is the hardest thing in football. But I've never watched a team at any level set up to entirely renounce trying. 

[Joe MacCarthy]

6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I recognize that playing through the middle and scoring is the hardest thing in football. But I've never watched a team at any level set up to entirely renounce trying. 

Dumb question (but that's never stopped me before), can Liam Millar play midfield or have the capability?

[archer21]

14 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It's about getting your talent on the pitch. We have attacking talent, but we can't play a 3-2-5. As is, I think a David in the middle behind Larin and Ike, for example, could work, because he would still be close enough to get into scoring position, as he did at Ghent. 

We have been alternately sitting David and Larin, objectively it's a bit nuts. If we were in a club situation, it'd be okay, lots of fixtures to mix it up. As is, we are playing where every match counts, and sitting our talent regardless. 

I think the guy to be our attacking  mid otherwise is Osorio, and he also is a decent scorer when set loose (for me, the most beautiful goal was his at Azteca, because slicing through the middle of the Mexican defence in that way, in DF, was objectively the hardest thing to do in Concacaf). A lot of these younger guys coming up, Flores, Dias, Mitrovic, all have that profile, as @costargwas saying above. 

This is the dilemna: play to your strengths, sure, let'd do it. But also create alternatives and cultivate them, because they might help you respond to a pinch. We don't have a Modric, but we can do a lot to improve our options in the middle and not be just a wing attack team. 

I think Hoilett can play as an attacking midfielder too. Playing him behind David and Larin is a good option.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Dumb question (but that's never stopped me before), can Liam Millar play midfield or have the capability?

IMO an authentic mid has to have 360 degree mobility and vision and can play possession and support others doing it. Should have solid passing both feet. And both tackling and holding in tight.

Davies can't do all that, nor Tajon, nor Laryea or Adekugbe, and Millar doesn't do it, or Theo. So many guys effective close to a sideline, but not so much out in the middle of the lake. 

[JAVIERF]

3 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Dumb question (but that's never stopped me before), can Liam Millar play midfield or have the capability?

Good question I don't think he is faster enough or trickster enough like Damian Duff or Ribery to play there maybe somewhere on the center

[JAVIERF]

Hoilett is the best to play the free role ,  Davies is another or Jon David.  The thing is Jon David is so effective near the box I wouldn't move him 

[Joe MacCarthy]

57 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

IMO an authentic mid has to have 360 degree mobility and vision and can play possession and support others doing it. Should have solid passing both feet. And both tackling and holding in tight.

Davies can't do all that, nor Tajon, nor Laryea or Adekugbe, and Millar doesn't do it, or Theo. So many guys effective close to a sideline, but not so much out in the middle of the lake. 

That seems reasonable to me, obviously the reason I asked is we will be weaker at that position and we have a plethora of guys up top.  And with some other players changing position and doing well, Laryea/Fraser, in their career, I was just ponderin'.

[Sal333]

56 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

That seems reasonable to me, obviously the reason I asked is we will be weaker at that position and we have a plethora of guys up top.  And with some other players changing position and doing well, Laryea/Fraser, in their career, I was just ponderin'.

For the long term we have Flores, Mitrovic and Diaz.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I agree with some here that I missed Hoillet.

He could be a key linking player. He also has the kind of pause, can hold up, and is smart, he can draw a foul.

I think he was not that sharp for us vs. Honduras, because we were getting kicked at first half. That explains Junior having a modest runout, and Liam as well. Also perhaps: Junior only had a few games back after a long injury, if he comes into camp in full form he'd be sharper.

[dyslexic nam]

3 hours ago, Sal333 said:

For the long term we have Flores, Mitrovic and Diaz.

Depending on where and how much TFC play them this year, I could also see Marshall-Rutty and Nelson as candidates for this kind of role in the future.  Nelson seems more direct in terms of attacking guys and immediately moving upfield whereas JMR seems like he has good vision for the game.   I think either could potentially develop into that sort of player (though it seems like TFC are continuing to play JMR out wide).  

[Joe MacCarthy]

4 hours ago, Sal333 said:

For the long term we have Flores, Mitrovic and Diaz.

Do we?

[costarg]

Interesting write up on ESPN--> https://www.espn.com/soccer/arsenal-engarsenal/story/4589034/arsenals-future-charlie-patinomarcelo-floresomar-rekik-may-see-first-team-action-this-season

[narduch]

His sisters, Silvana and Tatiana, both came on as subs today for Mexico in the Concacaf Women's U-20 Championship 

[Corazon]

Marcelo scored the lone goal for Arsenal U23's the other day in 4-1 loss to Liverpool u23's.

 

 

[Ally McCoist]

On 2/8/2022 at 2:14 PM, Joe MacCarthy said:

Do we?

If I was a betting man, Flores is probably gonna be playing for Mexico. If he did end up playing for Canada though I'd have a hay day trolling Mexico fans on Twitter. But I doubt it.

[jordan]

Goal and assist so far today

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

15 hours ago, jordan said:

Goal and assist so far today

Every time I look at these England U-23 highlights, I am shocked by how half-gassed the whole clips look. It is all so relaxed, like training sessions.

B teams playing competitive football in Spain are not coasting around like that. England really has to solve this dumb system, maybe by letting them compete up to a certain level of full tiered football. 

[spitfire]

U23s football in the uk is a disaster(from experience) it’s why players have to get out on loan it really doesn’t prepare u for mens football.

Flores being 17/18 it’s good for him for now but anyone that’s 19/20… it’s really not good. Let’s hope Flores gets into the first team set up or goes out on loan next season in Europe…

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, spitfire said:

U23s football in the uk is a disaster(from experience) it’s why players have to get out on loan it really doesn’t prepare u for mens football.

Flores being 17/18 it’s good for him for now but anyone that’s 19/20… it’s really not good. Let’s hope Flores gets into the first team set up or goes out on loan next season in Europe…

The u-23 reserve system has a lot to do with the power of smaller clubs in the FA. And in England there is an interpretation and an orientation that has dominated.

A Peterborough United or Tranmere don't want to have to see B teams of Arsenal or Leeds because for them it means competiting for promotion spots, or against relegation, against a club with greater resources. Maybe younger guys, but guys on a club with more money, a club that could even drop certain players down to bolster their second team. Every B team of an EPL or Championship side in a pro FA tier means one less of the modest clubs. 

And you could argue it is true: in Spain where B teams can rise as high as possible without being in the same division as the first team, there have been times with Bs of up to 4-5 Liga clubs in 2nd division. That is not sharing the spoils, it is benefitting the more powerful club, who get to maximise their development system at the expense of those clubs in 3rd division who are missing out.

To grasp the philosophy of sharing the spoils around, just look at the silly glut of teams in Championship down to League One, 24-team divisions and the like. That is leagues pandering to constituencies, as it lowers quality and means many teams are playing for nothing a few months before the season ends.

They'd rather have an overly stuffed division with objectively too many teams and ridiculous schedules with poorer play, than allow a B team of an EPL side in there competing on the same terms. 

All systems have their detractors, but in Spain this is actually not complained about. Because it has been like this for half a century and the modest clubs are used to it. They do it too, in fact my neighbourhood club in 8th tier has another team in 9th. 

Some think a possible solution, or midway compromise, would be to allow a B team up to a certain tier lower than the first team. Say a 3 tier spread. But what would that mean? If all EPL teams could have a B team, with some age restrictions and contract limitations (no full A team players playing more than x no of games on the B team), and they could go no higher than League One, then the result: League One would have 12-14 EPL B teams. So that wouldn't work either.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist