Cyle Larin

[Kadenge]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Fran Sánchez the guy who signed him at Valladolid, sporting director, and apparently close to him from what I've seen, says RV is not going to sell him cheap. That if they don't get the offer they want they will keep him, and can, as the contract stipulates that if he plays with them in 2nd division his salary goes down automatically. Sánchez says they've spoken and it is clear that any sale has to "help the club grow".

Again, this article repeats he was making 2.8 million. What we did not know previously was that, first, the buyout could be activated if they relegated, and second, new, that his salary would automatically drop in 2nd if they chose to keep him.

Story is from Sunday in Spain in seems.

https://www.estadiodeportivo.com/futbol/mallorca/advertencia-clara-para-los-pretendientes-cyle-larin-20230702-422845.html

they could loan him to a 1st div team if they dont get the price they want and presumably Larin gets the 2.8M salary?

[dyslexic nam]

5 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

they could loan him to a 1st div team if they dont get the price they want and presumably Larin gets the 2.8M salary?

Watching Canadians Abroad on OS and they are discussing that option right now 

 

EDIT: actually it seems like it is not a new episode. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by dyslexic nam

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Watching Canadians Abroad on OS and they are discussing that option right now 

 

EDIT: actually it seems like it is not a new episode. 

Sometimes I get the feeling that Demming and the guys at OS just read this board and crib. What do they know about La Liga, apart from absolutely nothing? Josh is a good guy, a good communicator, and when he's not doing these speculation shows, has good criteria. But in transfer rumour territory it's inevitable to be as bad as everyone else, the only way to get real scoops is by paying.

[Unnamed Trialist]

This is an article going the opposite direction: what happens if Mallorca don't get Larin? And they'd look for options out of la Real Sociedad de San Sebastián. 

https://www.elgoldigital.com/futbol/rcd-mallorca/alternativa-potente-del-mallorca-a-cyle-larin-en-la-real-sociedad/

It is not what the article is saying, it's me: I have been thinking for a while the real sleepers in all this were la Real and Villarreal. The former have had Sorloth on loan and it looks like they can't keep him. They lost Isak last year; this season they had Oyarzabal injured, he is a smart striker moving between the lines, but not too physical, he looks like the guy at the local garden centre. They've been playing well, making Europe, and with beautiful play at times, without really having all the pieces for success in place.

The other team I think could show interest and surprise us is Villareal, though I've read nothing about any interest from them. They just sold a young striker, Jackson, to Chelsea for a big fee, Gerard Moreno, for me is one of the most talented Spanish strikers, is always injured, on the right side attack they have ex-Millenium Falcon crew member Chukwueze, also rumoured to be transferred. 

The advantage teams with a few transfers out in place have is that they have money, and probably enough for a few players. They can legit sit at the table, aren't so rich they'll force prices up, but will still pay for what they need. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

From a Valladolid site, Mallorca is still interested, would pay his 2.8million salary making him amongst the 3 highest players on the team, but what RV is asking for the transfer is still too high. But that Larin is pressuring RV to sell, as if he stays in 2nd division his salary is halved, down to 1.4.

https://pucelafichajes.com/2023/07/futbol-desde-mallorca-la-presion-que-ejerce-cyle-larin-para-salir-es-alta/

This one is similar, even identical in parts, only adds other options for the Mallorca attack, like Mayoral at Getafe. The comments observe that Mallorca paid 7 million for Muriqi and he's similar, so that is not far from the 10 RV are asking. Also, most fans seem to like what they saw in Cyle.

https://www.futboldesdemallorca.com/blog/2023/07/05/cyle-larin-sigue-siendo-muy-caro-ofrecido-borja-mayoral/

Mallorca sold Kang to PSG so that means they do have money to improve their roster, they especially need a creative mid to replace him.

More Valladolid news, now Barça is interested in Fresneda the outside back. RV could be selling Fresneda, Plata, Amallah, Larin, which could put them over 30 million ahead, a good nest egg to get back into top flight.

[Kent]

On 7/1/2023 at 5:51 PM, Obinna said:

This should have always been the rule. You don't gain any noticable advantage by edging your pinky finger behind the final man. 

It's still the same, just the choice of where to draw the line in the sand is different. Just like you don't gain more of an advantage by having a toenail ahead of the last defender, you don't lose any advantage by having a bit of your trailing cleat in line with the last defender's foremost toenail.

It's being measured to a ridiculous degree, which will counterintuitively make it controversial (and having it not be consistent is also controversial). Besides, has it ever been determined at what point the ball has officially been "played" to the onside/offside player? Let's say I am doing a scoop pass over the top of a defender. The ball might be on my foot for a third of a second. Did I play it when I first initiated contact? Or did I only play it once I was no longer making contact with the ball? A player running at full tilt could run a couple meters in that time. That's part of why I dislike the measurements to the millimeter on those freeze frame offside lines. I bet it would still look like the ball is being kicked if you went a frame or two forward, or a frame or two backwards, but it might change whether the player was onside or offside.

OK, I just looked it up and it looks like they have updated the rule to being at the moment the ball was touched. So that deals with my scoop pass example, but I still think measuring to such fine accuracy doesn't help anything, and changing from the front of the attacker to the back of the attacker won't remove controversy. If my memory serves me correctly, being even with the second to last defender used to be offside, then they changed it to being even with the second to last defender is onside. And yet, there is still controversy and/or hurt feelings. 

[kacbru]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

It's still the same, just the choice of where to draw the line in the sand is different. Just like you don't gain more of an advantage by having a toenail ahead of the last defender, you don't lose any advantage by having a bit of your trailing cleat in line with the last defender's foremost toenail.

It's being measured to a ridiculous degree, which will counterintuitively make it controversial (and having it not be consistent is also controversial). Besides, has it ever been determined at what point the ball has officially been "played" to the onside/offside player? Let's say I am doing a scoop pass over the top of a defender. The ball might be on my foot for a third of a second. Did I play it when I first initiated contact? Or did I only play it once I was no longer making contact with the ball? A player running at full tilt could run a couple meters in that time. That's part of why I dislike the measurements to the millimeter on those freeze frame offside lines. I bet it would still look like the ball is being kicked if you went a frame or two forward, or a frame or two backwards, but it might change whether the player was onside or offside.

OK, I just looked it up and it looks like they have updated the rule to being at the moment the ball was touched. So that deals with my scoop pass example, but I still think measuring to such fine accuracy doesn't help anything, and changing from the front of the attacker to the back of the attacker won't remove controversy. If my memory serves me correctly, being even with the second to last defender used to be offside, then they changed it to being even with the second to last defender is onside. And yet, there is still controversy and/or hurt feelings. 

Yeah, I find the pursuit of absolute precision on these things counter productive.  What's next? Neural sensors that determine when someone thinks about kicking the ball?  I don't have a problem with using VAR to correct a referee mistake (Atiba was onside!), but I'm also perfectly happy to leave really close calls up to the referees/linesperson judgement. Also fully aware that that ship has sailed.

[TOcanadafan]

21 minutes ago, kacbru said:

Yeah, I find the pursuit of absolute precision on these things counter productive.  What's next? Neural sensors that determine when someone thinks about kicking the ball?  I don't have a problem with using VAR to correct a referee mistake (Atiba was onside!), but I'm also perfectly happy to leave really close calls up to the referees/linesperson judgement. Also fully aware that that ship has sailed.

I’m sure if you locked enough tech nerds and experts in a room, they could devise a way to get offside calls to amazing precision at the snap of a finger.  VAR should have no play in this… there’s no judgement call.  
I’m guessing not everyone involved in football wants decisions to be ‘correct’ and ‘quick’ for whatever motives they have.  There’s the ‘fixing’ angle involved, and also they may like the controversy and theatre that ‘bad’ decisions bring as it could help ratings for post-game shows.

[Kadenge]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

It's still the same, just the choice of where to draw the line in the sand is different. Just like you don't gain more of an advantage by having a toenail ahead of the last defender, you don't lose any advantage by having a bit of your trailing cleat in line with the last defender's foremost toenail.

It's being measured to a ridiculous degree, which will counterintuitively make it controversial (and having it not be consistent is also controversial). Besides, has it ever been determined at what point the ball has officially been "played" to the onside/offside player? Let's say I am doing a scoop pass over the top of a defender. The ball might be on my foot for a third of a second. Did I play it when I first initiated contact? Or did I only play it once I was no longer making contact with the ball? A player running at full tilt could run a couple meters in that time. That's part of why I dislike the measurements to the millimeter on those freeze frame offside lines. I bet it would still look like the ball is being kicked if you went a frame or two forward, or a frame or two backwards, but it might change whether the player was onside or offside.

OK, I just looked it up and it looks like they have updated the rule to being at the moment the ball was touched. So that deals with my scoop pass example, but I still think measuring to such fine accuracy doesn't help anything, and changing from the front of the attacker to the back of the attacker won't remove controversy. If my memory serves me correctly, being even with the second to last defender used to be offside, then they changed it to being even with the second to last defender is onside. And yet, there is still controversy and/or hurt feelings. 

No offside rule will be perfect but this new amendment will probably allow +95% of goals that were previously ruled offside.

[InglewoodJack]

One thing I’ve never understood is why offsides needs laser sharp precision, meanwhile extra time is basically left to the ref’s whims. Refs can add or take away time as they we fit, but if you’re a hair offside, goal is taken back

[Bigandy]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

It's still the same, just the choice of where to draw the line in the sand is different. Just like you don't gain more of an advantage by having a toenail ahead of the last defender, you don't lose any advantage by having a bit of your trailing cleat in line with the last defender's foremost toenail.

It's being measured to a ridiculous degree, which will counterintuitively make it controversial (and having it not be consistent is also controversial). Besides, has it ever been determined at what point the ball has officially been "played" to the onside/offside player? Let's say I am doing a scoop pass over the top of a defender. The ball might be on my foot for a third of a second. Did I play it when I first initiated contact? Or did I only play it once I was no longer making contact with the ball? A player running at full tilt could run a couple meters in that time. That's part of why I dislike the measurements to the millimeter on those freeze frame offside lines. I bet it would still look like the ball is being kicked if you went a frame or two forward, or a frame or two backwards, but it might change whether the player was onside or offside.

OK, I just looked it up and it looks like they have updated the rule to being at the moment the ball was touched. So that deals with my scoop pass example, but I still think measuring to such fine accuracy doesn't help anything, and changing from the front of the attacker to the back of the attacker won't remove controversy. If my memory serves me correctly, being even with the second to last defender used to be offside, then they changed it to being even with the second to last defender is onside. And yet, there is still controversy and/or hurt feelings. 

Interesting rule.  So technically I could stall the ball on my foot, have a player run behind the defense and then send it through to him in an offside position because my first moment of contact was the initial stall. 

TBH I dont like the proposed changes as a player. As a fan I like more goals. But my understanding is that the entire player has to be offside. So if the defenders back leg trails 2' towards his net and the attackers rear leg is 2' behind him and they overlap 1", he is technically onside but has a 3' 11" advantage? Am I understanding it correctly?

[Kadenge]

5 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

One thing I’ve never understood is why offsides needs laser sharp precision, meanwhile extra time is basically left to the ref’s whims. Refs can add or take away time as they we fit, but if you’re a hair offside, goal is taken back

Same for goal line technology no?

[Acid-Tone]

The players already all wear fitness trackers. It's past time that soccer incorporates modern day technology, the way sports like tennis & volleyball have. Use enhanced fitness trackers or whatever, track every touch (or pass), and when theres a debated offside, a second or two later a computer/AI/person could tell the ref which player was further ahead at that moment. 

[Obinna]

5 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

One thing I’ve never understood is why offsides needs laser sharp precision, meanwhile extra time is basically left to the ref’s whims. Refs can add or take away time as they we fit, but if you’re a hair offside, goal is taken back

It doesn't. For me it's an annoyance. Think of why the rule is in place.... it's to prevent players being on the suck and getting an advantage. To call it laser sharp is losing perspective of why the rule is there in the first place. Nobody is on the suck by being a mm offside.

5 hours ago, Kadenge said:

Same for goal line technology no?

No it's not for me. A goal vs. No goal rightfully deserves laser sharp precision in my opinion. Goals decide games and the name of the game is getting the ball across the goal line. To me that is fundamentally different than offsides.

If the game was determined by keeping score of how many through balls you could connect on while being onside, then it would deserve laser sharp precision. At least that's how I look at it.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Obinna

[Kent]

When I was a teenager I did some refereeing and running lines. For me I called offside with no regard for legs at all because they move so quick and are so erratic, I just looked at torsos, like a runner crossing a finish line is measured by their chest, not a finger, toe, or even a head. Measuring it that way might (but maybe not) make it easier to take the laser precision calls. I think it makes more sense to do it that way, what advantage does that toe being ahead of the defender's toe give you? That leading foot is about to be a trailing foot anyways. Instead of measuring by the things that go move, stop, move, stop, move, why not measure against the body that is constantly moving in whatever direction the player is attempting to move in?

[TOcanadafan]

14 hours ago, Acid-Tone said:

The players already all wear fitness trackers. It's past time that soccer incorporates modern day technology, the way sports like tennis & volleyball have. Use enhanced fitness trackers or whatever, track every touch (or pass), and when theres a debated offside, a second or two later a computer/AI/person could tell the ref which player was further ahead at that moment. 

Exactly, the tech is there, for an instant, accurate check.  And because you have the AI, give the linesman a noise signal / buzz if a player is a certain range (say 0-1 m) offside so he/she can give the call live.  
Just like not accurately measuring added extra time, it’s ridiculous the game hasn’t incorporated this kind of tech into black and white decisions.

[TOcanadafan]

14 hours ago, Acid-Tone said:

The players already all wear fitness trackers. It's past time that soccer incorporates modern day technology, the way sports like tennis & volleyball have. Use enhanced fitness trackers or whatever, track every touch (or pass), and when theres a debated offside, a second or two later a computer/AI/person could tell the ref which player was further ahead at that moment. 

Exactly, the tech is there, for an instant, accurate check.  And because you have the AI, give the linesman a noise signal / buzz if a player is a certain range (say 0-1 m) offside so he/she can give the call live.  
Just like not accurately measuring added extra time, it’s ridiculous the game hasn’t incorporated this kind of tech into black and white decisions.

[InglewoodJack]

11 hours ago, Obinna said:

It doesn't. For me it's an annoyance. Think of why the rule is in place.... it's to prevent players being on the suck and getting an advantage. To call it laser sharp is losing perspective of why the rule is there in the first place. Nobody is on the suck by being a mm offside.

No it's not for me. A goal vs. No goal rightfully deserves laser sharp precision in my opinion. Goals decide games and the name of the game is getting the ball across the goal line. To me that is fundamentally different than offsides.

If the game was determined by keeping score of how many through balls you could connect on while being onside, then it would deserve laser sharp precision. At least that's how I look at it.

Yeah, exactly. One of the biggest differences between soccer and other sports is soccer is inherently fluid- no clock stoppage, extra time at the ref's discretion, if a player is injured, he can stand on the sideline while the game goes on and then come back in, but when it comes to offsides, even instances where it doesn't give the player any advantage, it's apparently really important to make sure the rule is being observed to an absolute T.

 

If they want to observe offsides this way, then why not adopt the other precise aspects of other North American sports? Have extra time calculated to the exact second by a computer. Have every play within the last 5 minutes of the game reviewed by VAR automatically. Implement coach's challenges.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Odd the offside debate is on the Larin thread when that is really not one of his bigger problems, he tends to move well and onside between the CBs.

New rumours: Nashville, looking to sign a DP. In this article from today they list him as a possible target for their DP money. But I don't think they'd be able to buy, they'd have to take him on loan and pay the salary. So not interesting for Cyle, but still, interesting to see.

https://broadwaysportsmedia.com/nashville-sc-transfer-window-update-revisiting-the-striker-targets/

Also saw another article out of MLS that Cyle is one of only 4 players to score 10+ goals in MLS first year out of college.

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Odd the offside debate is on the Larin thread when that is really not one of his bigger problems, he tends to move well and onside between the CBs.

New rumours: Nashville, looking to sign a DP. In this article from today they list him as a possible target for their DP money. But I don't think they'd be able to buy, they'd have to take him on loan and pay the salary. So not interesting for Cyle, but still, interesting to see.

https://broadwaysportsmedia.com/nashville-sc-transfer-window-update-revisiting-the-striker-targets/

Also saw another article out of MLS that Cyle is one of only 4 players to score 10+ goals in MLS first year out of college.

Do you know who the 3 others are? 

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Odd the offside debate is on the Larin thread when that is really not one of his bigger problems, he tends to move well and onside between the CBs.

He finished 2nd in LaLiga in offsides, being called 29 (!) times in 19 games. 2 less than Castellanos who played 16 more games. 

[InglewoodJack]

On 7/3/2023 at 1:44 AM, Unnamed Trialist said:

Sometimes I get the feeling that Demming and the guys at OS just read this board and crib. What do they know about La Liga, apart from absolutely nothing? Josh is a good guy, a good communicator, and when he's not doing these speculation shows, has good criteria. But in transfer rumour territory it's inevitable to be as bad as everyone else, the only way to get real scoops is by paying.

I’ve noticed topics from here becoming Twitter conservations shortly after they’ve been discussed here, so I’ve always assumed most of Canadian soccer media trawls this forum for info. I saw some page- CANMNT Updates or CANMNT Out Of Context straight up screenshot a post from here a few weeks ago.

[Kent]

4 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Do you know who the 3 others are? 

Jordan Morris had 12 in 2016.

Damani Ralph had 11 in 2003.

I can't find the last one. Diego Rossi scored 12 in his first season in 2018, but I don't think he played NCAA. I just looked up rookies of the year and checked the stats for the forwards.

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Do you know who the 3 others are? 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

He's not training with the first team, which started on Monday. He's freed up, as they say, because he's with his national team. Perhaps because he went into the camp for Nations League they are giving him more days; other possible transfers out, like Plata and El Yamiq, are also exempt for now. So not in this pic.

https://www.realvalladolid.es/noticias/el-pucela-202324-a-la-carrera

I think it'd benefit him to do the preseason properly with them as the transfer could take a while.

In related, press reports say that the only clear offer on the table is from Mallorca, offering less than half the asking price of 10 million euros. Say that's 4.5, still not want they want, but if they split the difference he may go for 7-8.