Cyle Larin

[SoCalTransport]

21 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

He's 27... Thats his prime. I think we have very different views on when its time to cash in. Surely you dont think its time for grealish, kimmich, martial etc to quit striving towards playing at the highest level, because they are not getting any younger. I sure hope we don't encourage all our players to stop playing in europe at 27. Millar, Davies, corbeanu, staq, Johnston, Kone etc would all have around 3-6 yeats left before its time to go back to MLS. Why is Larin different? If hes successful in la liga, he can command a bigger pay check in 4 years when he is actually of the age where it makes sense to go back to MLS.

I rather he play then sit on the bench in La Liga. I would think playing in your  hometown would be enticing for someone like him.

It's about timing also,  in 3-5 years time, MLS may not be interested.

[Bigandy]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

Who is actually doing enough to take his spot though?

Currently no one is.

Only David is ahead of him on the depth chart still.

 

Currently, i would agree. However, I do not think we should look at his spot for the next 6 months, but the next 5-7 years of his national team career (as i assume that once he goes back to MLS he stays there). If ugbo ever finds any form, which is very realistic, then he jumps an MLS Larin. Jebbison is a good probability to pass him regardless of if larin stays in europe. Going to MLS just accelerates this. Brym is on an upward trajectory, who knows where his ceiling is? Lots of guys are saying corbeanu will eventually end up as a striker or at least can play there. Davies can be given a free roaming role up top which takes away larins minutes.  Where does colyn end up. Could akinola step up? 

All of this is hypothetical, but if we talk about where we want our players to play, A guy like larin going to MLS at 27 is not a step forward. By going back to MLS, he is essentially closing the gap between his quality and the next players in the depth chart. 

The other point, is that we don't have to compare apples to apples (positionally) for his playing time to be reduced. Currently, he rotates or plays with David very frequently. If he drops to MLS, then theres less incentive to keep this strategy. We could easily play 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 and his minutes would be replaced by wingers or midfielders. I think we are already nearing this strategy. 

[Bigandy]

Just now, SoCalTransport said:

I rather he play then sit on the bench in La Liga. I would think playing in your  hometown would be enticing for someone like him.

It's about timing also,  in 3-5 years time, MLS may not be interested.

I see what youre saying. From his perspective, there are some great positives and obviously timing for him is a gamble. 

From a fans perspective of CMNT, i also see that we want him getting minutes. I just think that hes too young to not fight for a spot in europe. Maybe La liga is too high of a level, but theres surely some middle ground between la liga and returning to MLS. If he goes to MLS, he may improve his form (which is obv important), but I dont think he improves his quality as much as he could in europe.  He's already outgrown MLS so going back because europe was difficult seems like a nearsighted move. 

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Currently, i would agree. However, I do not think we should look at his spot for the next 6 months, but the next 5-7 years of his national team career (as i assume that once he goes back to MLS he stays there). If ugbo ever finds any form, which is very realistic, then he jumps an MLS Larin. Jebbison is a good probability to pass him regardless of if larin stays in europe. Going to MLS just accelerates this. Brym is on an upward trajectory, who knows where his ceiling is? Lots of guys are saying corbeanu will eventually end up as a striker or at least can play there. Davies can be given a free roaming role up top which takes away larins minutes.  Where does colyn end up. Could akinola step up? 

All of this is hypothetical, but if we talk about where we want our players to play, A guy like larin going to MLS at 27 is not a step forward. By going back to MLS, he is essentially closing the gap between his quality and the next players in the depth chart. 

The other point, is that we don't have to compare apples to apples (positionally) for his playing time to be reduced. Currently, he rotates or plays with David very frequently. If he drops to MLS, then theres less incentive to keep this strategy. We could easily play 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 and his minutes would be replaced by wingers or midfielders. I think we are already nearing this strategy. 

This may or may not be true, because MLS is getting better every year. This year MLS sent the more players to the World Cup than another other league outside the so-called "Top 5". That's partially due to the fact the league has like 32 teams - more than any other by far - but it's also true that better players are coming every season. Just think about how much better the players in MLS are now versus 4 years ago.

None of this is suggesting I want him to make the move now, actually. Just giving another perspective on your comment. I actually hope he goes on loan to Cadiz. From there, I will see what happens and then reassess what I think is best for Larin. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Obinna

[Ruffian]

If he goes to Cadiz and starts regularly and gets paid $1.5 Mil for 2 years that is better than going to MLS and getting paid $2 Mil for 3 years because he will have options for his next contract. But if he doesn't play regularly in La Liga he will be 29 and have limited options.

Both pay him well. He is more likely to have a legacy in MLS. He may feel more accomplished having played in la Liga. It is a trade off for him and all a life decision. I doubt Canadian national team fans opinions of what is a good move really matter to him.

[Bigandy]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

This may or may not be true, because MLS is getting better every year. This year MLS sent the most players to the World Cup than another other league outside the so-called "Top 5". That's partially due to the fact the league has like 32 teams - more than any other by far - but it's also true that better players are coming every season. Just think about how much better the players in MLS are now versus 4 years ago.

None of this is suggesting I want him to make the move now, actually. Just giving another perspective on your comment. I actually hope he goes on loan to Cadiz. From there, I will see what happens and then reassess what I think is best for Larin. 

Great point. You can further that logic by comparing the league from when he left to four years from now and the gap is even bigger. However, this is all speculation. I think we can all agree that the expectation is clear that Cadiz will remain better than an MLS side in 4 years. 

Next, as long as MLS improves, the other competitors for his spot in mls will also be improving. Akinola with 5-10 goals in a year is not that far off from larin with 8-15 (on paper). Even if the gap between mls and european leagues closes, i think his best route to remain a clear front runner for minutes, is to stay in europe. 

The MLS is also the main league for 2 countries where as most other countries all have their own league. (for the sake of player contributions to this world cup, our main league is MLS and not CPL). So the stat are a bit skewed which youve already acknowledged. 

I think if our vision - as outlayed by herdman - is to get more players in tier 1 leagues, moving to MLS from europe is a disappointment. 

 

2 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

I doubt Canadian national team fans opinions of what is a good move really matter to him.

Of course not, and it shouldnt influence his decision. But that shouldnt stop us from talking about what our preferences are. 

[grigorio]

9 hours ago, SoCalTransport said:

I want him at TFC as their third DP.

IMO Larin isn't DP quality for an aspirational team looking to be a top team in MLS. Neither was Cavallini. I'm also wary of these Canadian repatriation projects that happen too soon. Makes sense for someone like Hutchinson now, but not sure it made sense for De Guzman, Cavallini, heck maybe even Gerba. 

[Floortom]

Just now, grigorio said:

IMO Larin isn't DP quality for an aspirational team looking to be a top team in MLS. Neither was Cavallini. I'm also wary of these Canadian repatriation projects that happen too soon. Makes sense for someone like Hutchinson now, but not sure it made sense for De Guzman, Cavallini, heck maybe even Gerba. 

Agreed on Cavallini but I think Larin has value as an MLS DP because he could score a ton of goals in the league.  I think he could pretty easily get 15+ playing on TFC

[BearcatSA]

20 minutes ago, Obinna said:

This may or may not be true, because MLS is getting better every year. This year MLS sent the more players to the World Cup than another other league outside the so-called "Top 5". That's partially due to the fact the league has like 32 teams - more than any other by far - but it's also true that better players are coming every season. Just think about how much better the players in MLS are now versus 4 years ago.

None of this is suggesting I want him to make the move now, actually. Just giving another perspective on your comment. I actually hope he goes on loan to Cadiz. From there, I will see what happens and then reassess what I think is best for Larin. 

Thirty-six players, 10 from Canada, 9 from the States, not sure of the break down of those who were regular starters or started a match for their countries or how far their countries advanced (though Almada and his six sub minutes vs Poland contributed to his winners' medal).

I hope he sticks in Europe but we are seeing a trend here.

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Yaremchuk or Jutgla or both could move on, you never know. If that happens and Cyle Larin does well for Cadiz, no need to make another purchase - you can just recall a forward who scored goals in La Liga. Pretty convenient if you're Brugge. 

Furthermore, going on loan to La Liga may set him up for a sale to a better club than Cadiz in Spain (if he does well). Or it may be Cadiz themselves who want to make it permanent. Brugge could even sell Larin to Toronto in the summer, if you're one of those wanting him to make a DP move. Either way, sending him on loan can set the table for a permanent transfer later on by getting him playing time now. 

No rush to make it permanent in my view, but a move for playing time is definitely needed.  

I'm not opposed to a loan, since it would be a very similar move to what Ugbo did last year, but I think an outright transfer is good too. If Cadiz get relegated, I believe that he would be automatically released from his contract and thus could sign elsewhere? I don't believe Brugge rate him at all- they went out and paid 17M (I think?) for Yaremchuk before they even gave Larin much of a chance to prove himself. Also, CB stand to make a really nice profit from selling Tajon, any of their strikers, even guys like Lang and Olsen could be ready to leave- they can take advantage of a nice world cup boost, meaning CB are in a very good position to go and buy another excellent young striker. I think what it would take for Larin to "prove himself" to Brugge on loan is likely enough to prove himself to another La Liga team, or even a Ligue 1 or Portuguese team.

I'm not too concerned with Larin's playing time- remember that in 2026, he will be 31, meaning that unless he improves and sustains his club situation over the next 3 seasons, he'll likely be a solid MLS vet who takes on a similar role as Cavallini had this cycle- good player we'd like to leave home in favour of better options but can still produce some good moments here and there. For that reason, I think he needs to go all in, and if it fails, there will be an abundance of MLS offers, and ones from Turkey too, I'm sure, that can give him a big pay day as he goes off into the sunset.

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

Thirty-six players, 10 from Canada, 9 from the States, not sure of the break down of those who were regular starters or started a match for their countries or how far their countries advanced (though Almada and his six sub minutes vs Poland contributed to his winners' medal).

I hope he sticks in Europe but we are seeing a trend here.

Good stats. Im hoping you remembered cav is unattached fc.
 

Surprisingly, I think ecuador is 3rd.

Probably 4 or 5 guys who had a swansong WC. Bale, herrera, Oviedo, Shaqiri, caceres. The other "retiree" leagues like saudi arabia, china, japan etc probably cant claim they contribute as many internationals to the WC. 

Also, its probably not good to conclude many insights from this "trend". The saudi league is 33, Qatar league is 33, Championship is 26, Mexico is 23.   players at the WC without deeper analysis is not a worthy stat to determine which leagues are the strongest.

Edit: Its interesting that there is only 1 european player (swiderski) from the mls at the WC when you account for the "retirees". 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Bigandy

[Obinna]

13 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I'm not opposed to a loan, since it would be a very similar move to what Ugbo did last year, but I think an outright transfer is good too. If Cadiz get relegated, I believe that he would be automatically released from his contract and thus could sign elsewhere? I don't believe Brugge rate him at all- they went out and paid 17M (I think?) for Yaremchuk before they even gave Larin much of a chance to prove himself. Also, CB stand to make a really nice profit from selling Tajon, any of their strikers, even guys like Lang and Olsen could be ready to leave- they can take advantage of a nice world cup boost, meaning CB are in a very good position to go and buy another excellent young striker. I think what it would take for Larin to "prove himself" to Brugge on loan is likely enough to prove himself to another La Liga team, or even a Ligue 1 or Portuguese team.

For me an outright transfer to Cadiz right now comes with more risk, both for Larin and Cadiz. I fear he gets relegated and from the perspective of Cadiz why pay a transfer fee and sign a contract with the player which allows him to terminate when they go down? That would just be a waste of money compared to the alternative of bringing him in on loan. 

Cadiz and La Liga could be good for Larin, but if I were Larin I would want a loan, then a permanent move. 

Brugge signed him on a free, so I think you're right they don't rate him. I mean, they liked him enough to sign a contract with him, of course, but they never paid Besiktas money to transfer him there. If they can rid themselves of him it would free up funds, but Belgian clubs seem to be cleaver sellers. They could maybe get an extra mil or two in 6 months from now, after he scores goals out on loan, so perhaps it makes sense for them to loan him now and sell him later?

Will be interesting to see what the move looks like - if it happens at all.

[BearcatSA]

2 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Good stats. Im hoping you remembered cav is unattached fc.

There are always a numbers of players are basically unattached during June/July World Cups, so I don't see it differently here.

 

[Bigandy]

34 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

There are always a numbers of players are basically unattached during June/July World Cups, so I don't see it differently here.

 

The difference is that this is just a reference to an ongoing joke about unattached FC. Not really a serious statement. 
 

However, I would imagine that if a player is a free agent in a june WC, they wouldnt contribute to any stats for a league they are not contracted too. 

[BearcatSA]

12 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

The difference is that this is just a reference to an ongoing joke about unattached FC. Not really a serious statement. 
 

However, I would imagine that if a player is a free agent in a june WC, they wouldnt contribute to any stats for a league they are not contracted 

On the Mlssoccer site, Cavallini is listed as  a Whitecap.

[Bigandy]

2 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

On the Mlssoccer site, Cavallini is listed as  a Whitecap.

Are you sure? I just see "canada" and a picture of the flag on his profile. All other players have club name and club logo in that spot. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just pointing out that Cadiz maximum scorers after 14 matches both have 2 goals. They're starved for them. Then Lucas Pérez, with 2,  is rumoured to be going back to Deportivo de la Coruña, they'd basically take his salary and shift it to another striker.

Negredo who is ageing has one goal.

So it's not like Larin is going to have to do a lot to be positive for them. He won't be benched don't think. They were also looking at Toni Martínez at Oporto.

Cádiz beat Roma 3-0 in a friendly a few days ago and lost 3-4 to Wolves, so they looked good in these games.

[footballfreak]

5 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Good stats. Im hoping you remembered cav is unattached fc.

He was technically still under contract with Vancouver at the World Cup. MLS contracts expire December 31.

[Bigandy]

12 minutes ago, footballfreak said:

He was technically still under contract with Vancouver at the World Cup. MLS contracts expire December 31.

I am sure you are right, but that doesnt sound correct. Free agency opens on November 16. It seems odd to announce the release of players on nov 14, have free agency open on the 16th but still have all these released players under contract for another 1.5 months. 

[BearcatSA]

4 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Are you sure? I just see "canada" and a picture of the flag on his profile. All other players have club name and club logo in that spot. 

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/world-cup-rosters-which-countries-have-mls-players-at-qatar-2022

[ECW]

13 hours ago, Cicero said:

I don't know if 'origen'  in Spanish has a different connotation than 'origin' in English, but I find it annoying that these European journalists always feel the need to highlight that our players somehow aren't Canadian. He was born in Brampton and played youth soccer in Brampton and Mississauga. As far as I know, he never lived in Jamaica, nor did he ever have any connection with their youth teams etc. His parents' 'origen' (at least one of them) is Jamaica, not his. Apparently, we still haven't eliminated the 'Canadians can't play soccer' bias for some Europeans, so they always have to point to some connection to a 'legitimate' football nation. They do this with Davies every time they talk about him, as if his toddler years in Ghana were somehow the formative part of his soccer career.

Could be how you took it, or maybe it’s just that, if we come right down to it, Europe thinks in terms of race. And it doesn’t even begin to understand Canadian multiculturalism. So, the question about a black man is: black from where? In this case the answer is that he’s Jamaican. 

I like the move if it happens. I want to see him getting minutes again and it would be a pleasure to see him playing in Spain. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by ECW

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, ECW said:

Could be how you took it, or maybe it’s just that, if we come right down to it, Europe thinks in terms of race. And it doesn’t even begin to understand Canadian multiculturalism. So, the question about a black man is: black from where? In this case the answer is that he’s Jamaican. 

I like the move if it happens. I want to see him getting minutes again and it would be a pleasure to see him playing in Spain. 

It's not race in this case, it's an insistent idea that place of birth is definitive.  In Spain this is done for all athletes and also for writers or other cultural notables. Frank Gehry is always from Toronto for example, and the press will always put city of birth and year after an artist's name.  In your CV it's supposed to be at the top.

When the do the game call, they'll say "over to Buchanan" then "the Canadian pushes up the right" and even Messi will get "free kick for the Rosarino", the city. This is how when watching Champions League you hear Canada and Canadian a ton, which is nice. I've ever heard about Bono, "the keeper from Montreal".

If the press likes one or the other more, for some players you'll know where they were born because of these repetitions, if they ring nice or roll well of the tongue, "el de Camas", that's Sergio Ramos. And Camas is a bit of a dump on the outskirts of Sevilla.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Joe MacCarthy]

Cyle Larin, who left Beşiktaş, could not find what he expected in his new team, Club Brugge!
Yayın Tarihi Dünyadan Futbol Haberleri December 21 2022

Cyle Larin, who left Beşiktaş at the beginning of the season and transferred to Club Brugge, could not find what he expected in his new team.

He Has a Suitor from La Liga

According to the news in the Belgian press; Cadiz, one of the La Liga teams, aspired to Larin, who could not find a chance to play in Club Brugge. In the news, it was written that the Canadian player, who was not satisfied with the time he received at his club, was also warm to the separation and was closely interested in the offer because Cadiz was struggling in La Liga.

Larin, who has only had the chance to play for Club Brugge for 194 minutes, has scored 1 goal in this time.

[InglewoodJack]

Here’s how it’s gonna go. Larin to Cadiz who are one point out of being safe from relegation. They pass Espanyol who is one point above relegation. Espanyol gets relegated which allows them to play Koleosho more. Americans aren’t moved by a second division player so he plays for Canada. He ends up being so good that another La Liga team signs him, and now all of a sudden we have two La Liga forwards by next Christmas. 

[InglewoodJack]

Apparently his agent has also offered him to Fenerbahce. Heard Galatsaray turned him down already