Unnamed Trialist Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 22 hours ago, Obinna said: I don't follow OM but for the opener I did see they started Payet at CF and Konrad De La Fuente at LF. Last time I checked Payet was not a number 9 and De La Fuente had trouble making an impact at Barca B (similar to Tabla). I can't remember who the third player on the frontline was, but I can see why they'd want Larin. Konrad had a much better curve at Barça than you are saying. More years played than Tabla, from his early teens; but he also was in the B team when still an u-19 and then leap-frogged the B team into the first team and even got first team minutes. He just turned 20. And he is starting in Ligue 1. Now I think he is still green, and most likely not read to handle the full responsibility of being a starter, but he's a very sharp player. I think he'll be more important for the US than Dest, give him 3-4 years. Let Larin go fight it out with all of them. And yes, that is what I am saying, I prefer to see Larin at OM, a team I happen to like (they were my team in France but the corruption and stuff in the 90s soured me, now I have gone full nostalgia and support Saint Étienne) longlugan and Ivan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFranchise Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 On 8/9/2021 at 3:49 PM, Floortom said: I think it’s overstated how much he can raise his stock by staying at Besiktas. A 27 year old who has never played in a top 5 league will have a natural ceiling. Also, it’s just as possible IMO that his stock goes down with poor Champions league and / or regular season, injuries etc… to me this is very much a “strike when the iron is hot” situation and the risk of staying around is greater than the reward i was thinking along the same lines. i'm not sure that playing on a team that's probably getting pumped out of the first round of champions league boosts his stock more than making a deep run in europa league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One American Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) Konrad is not like Tabla. Edited August 11, 2021 by One American Unnamed Trialist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One American Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 I'm not saying going to Marseilles would be a bad idea. I would say going there thinking that Konrad would go to the bench is a bad idea, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, One American said: Konrad is not like Tabla. He had the fortune to be properly mentored from an early age and those years at La Masia, although tough for a young teen, will serve him well his entire career. Tabla played very well for Barça B, as well as Konrad, and I say that having seen both. But he was not-and perhaps is still not-as prepared on a personal and psychological level. Have to say: de la Fuente, who most certainly would have loved to be a Barça player, made a mature decision and accepted the transfer graciously. Fine kid. Regarding Larin, in principle he'd be ahead of Konrad, because he has proven goal-scoring ability. And players from Turkey are doing well in France, no one is going to say the leap is too high. They'd even be patient with him based on this. De la Fuente is still at the stage of needing first team minutes, he's still starting. Edited August 11, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist masster and One American 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One American Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 I don't mean to slight Larin at all. But if Konrad plays the rest of the season like he has played pre-season and the first game, then he's going to start every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, One American said: I don't mean to slight Larin at all. But if Konrad plays the rest of the season like he has played pre-season and the first game, then he's going to start every game. Could be the case, but OM aren't going to pay 12M for Larin just to sit him on the bench. He's coming in to start. Whether that's at the expense of Konrad or not who knows. I guess Larin could be a dud in France, but he has a very good goal record at every club his played for, as well as the national team. Obviously he needs to play well to keep his place, but the price tag is a pretty good indication of what OM expect his role will be. johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One American Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 Oh yeah, if he goes there and gets tap in after tap in from Konrad easing his way past the right back again, then it might be a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 Hey man, if both start and succeed at OM all the better for North American footy. Could be a David-Weah situation though, you never know. Shame they don't play together much, because they seem to have great chemistry on the field (and off it too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 4 hours ago, One American said: Oh yeah, if he goes there and gets tap in after tap in from Konrad easing his way past the right back again, then it might be a great idea. Either you're overstating the player's ability or suggesting Ligue 1 is easier than third tier Spain. At least you admit he's not been a prolific scorer and you don't expect it from him. But no need to insist, as I said I think he'll surpass Dest, whose curve has stalled it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One American Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Dest is the #7 right back in the world in terms of Transfermarkt value. His value is only a little bit less than that of David. Who is a goal-scorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 21 hours ago, One American said: I don't mean to slight Larin at all. But if Konrad plays the rest of the season like he has played pre-season and the first game, then he's going to start every game. You're funny... I like you Corazon, LeoH037, Obinna and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Marc Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, One American said: Dest is the #7 right back in the world in terms of Transfermarkt value. His value is only a little bit less than that of David. Who is a goal-scorer. If I have to read one more post that treats Transfermarkt values like they actually mean anything, I think I might just throw my Compaq out my mom's basement window. Edited August 13, 2021 by The Real Marc Kadenge, Ansem, Lansdude and 10 others 6 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, The Real Marc said: If I have to read one more post that treats Transfermarkt values like they actually mean anything, I think I might just throw my Compaq out my mom's basement window. It's basically the soccer wikipedia. Meaning it has to be taken with a huge grain of salt. May as well bring up FIFA or Football Manager ratings while you're at it Edited August 13, 2021 by narduch The Real Marc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 1 hour ago, One American said: Dest is the #7 right back in the world in terms of Transfermarkt value. His value is only a little bit less than that of David. Who is a goal-scorer. Dest is a young player who already has both Ajax and Barcelona on his CV. But, I'll bet my hat that, in 5 years, he'll be playing relatively anonymously on a mid-level team in Spain or in MLS. Then again, this Barcelona team is probably destined to be a mid-level team in La Liga for at least the next 5 years, anyway. Obinna and Ruffian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeoH037 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 3 hours ago, One American said: Dest is the #7 right back in the world in terms of Transfermarkt value. His value is only a little bit less than that of David. Who is a goal-scorer. Aside from the fact Dest plays in a relatively underwhelming Barcelona side, sure, however, guarantee if David made a move to a club of similar stature (say a Liverpool) just that act alone would raise his value proportionally. So it's probably not good to use Transfermarkt as a measure of a player's quality... Obinna and Kadenge 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 When Americans are coming here just to antagonize us, you know our program is headed in the right direction. Ruffian, LeoH037, Olympique_de_Marseille and 5 others 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 8 hours ago, The Real Marc said: If I have to read one more post that treats Transfermarkt values like they actually mean anything, I think I might just throw my Compaq out my mom's basement window. You're Mom lives in the basement?🤨 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floortom Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, The Real Marc said: If I have to read one more post that treats Transfermarkt values like they actually mean anything, I think I might just throw my Compaq out my mom's basement window. Transfermrkt values do actually mean something - they have proven to be quite accurate and are used by clubs and agents all the time. I’m not sure why this comment got so much support. they’re aggregated predictions - obviously not perfect. But directionally they are useful Edited August 13, 2021 by Floortom Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Floortom said: Transfermrkt values do actually mean something - they have proven to be quite accurate and are used by clubs and agents all the time. I’m not sure why this comment got so much support. they’re aggregated predictions - obviously not perfect. But directionally they are useful Transfermarket has a lot of errors and ommissions. This is like when you hear about NHL GM"s bringing in some magazine draft prediction to make their picks. The Real Marc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floortom Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, narduch said: Transfermarket has a lot of errors and ommissions. This is like when you hear about NHL GM"s bringing in some magazine draft prediction to make their picks. Coincidentally here’s a great article about it in the New York Times from a few days ago. Touches on its accuracy and how influential it is and the extent to which clubs and agents rely on it. JB1515 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Floortom said: Coincidentally here’s a great article about it in the New York Times from a few days ago. Touches on its accuracy and how influential it is and the extent to which clubs and agents rely on it. I just find that the further you get away from the top 5 leagues the worse the information gets. Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 10 hours ago, SthMelbRed said: Dest is a young player who already has both Ajax and Barcelona on his CV. But, I'll bet my hat that, in 5 years, he'll be playing relatively anonymously on a mid-level team in Spain or in MLS. Then again, this Barcelona team is probably destined to be a mid-level team in La Liga for at least the next 5 years, anyway. I know you follow Barça a bit, but the team has never been a mid-level team, ever. It is the only team in Europe to have played every year in European competition, since the 1950s. The thing with Dest, and the rest of the squad (and this probably goes for Real Madrid, who are also rather decimated), everyone has to pick up the slack when major players leave. Now maybe Busquets will think of shooting for the first time in his career. Top players usually do react. Strikers have to, you can't just wait for others to do the job. Dest will have to as well, but I've watched him every match and he's stalled, he is not one of the key players for Barça going forward. What I like about a Marseille option for Larin is that it is a team that seriously aspires to win the league. If you've ever been to Marseille, and I have a few times (once coincided with that crazy England game in a WC that ended in rioting), you will see Anti-PSG scarves and gear, they are perhaps the clearest case of an anti-north, anti-PSG team in France. So that is a nice competitive milieu and the fans expect a hell of a lot from you. I'd say a similar feel to being in Istanbul. I like that for our players. JB1515, kacbru, johnyb and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frattinator Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Floortom said: Coincidentally here’s a great article about it in the New York Times from a few days ago. Touches on its accuracy and how influential it is and the extent to which clubs and agents rely on it. This is super interesting! Though I will argue Transfermarkt's importance isn't purely due to lack of signal in the player transfer market, but rather more due to the fact that there really isn't any underlying "ground truth" in a player's value (players are worth as much as clubs are willing to pay for them). So instead Transfermarkt (either on purpose or accidentally) used "Cultural Consensus Theory" to determine their values, since "there is no requirement that there is a ground truth or scientifically verifiable set of correct answers to the questions. It is accepted that ‘cultural truth’ resides in the shared knowledge and beliefs of the informants". Floortom and The Real Marc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Larin starting on the bench for the first game of the Super Lig season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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