Liam Millar

[Bigandy]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

Maybe it's the style of league. The interview post-match over the weekend he said it was a fast paced game (against plymouth) but that it suits his game more than in Switzerland (I am paraphrasing btw).

So I would say that Championship is a bit higher than Swiss top flight, but the style of play better suits Liam. At least that seems to be my understanding of what he said. 

I'd argue that his CMNT opportunities have not suited him stylistically either. Poor field conditions, compact defenses.  At the GC he finally had some space (and conditions) that allowed him to run at defenders and he looked good. 

My guess is that liam would suit a ping pong style game more than a slow methodical breaking down of the opponent. The championship is further on the ping pong spectrum than switzerland IMO. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, Obinna said:

Maybe it's the style of league. The interview post-match over the weekend he said it was a fast paced game (against plymouth) but that it suits his game more than in Switzerland (I am paraphrasing btw).

So I would say that Championship is a bit higher than Swiss top flight, but the style of play better suits Liam. At least that seems to be my understanding of what he said. 

Basel having a bad year was challenging and even beating Fiorentina to get into a European final. 

No team in Championship could dream of such a thing.

It may suit his style but first, Switzerland is not a high tactic slow league. If you can impose yourself in one league after not doing so in another, the argument that you're in a lower level environment seems feasible.

[dyslexic nam]

9 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I know it's not nice but if Liam is thriving at PNE maybe it's because it's easier there than in Switzerland. He was playing European competitions, got to a Conference League semi final and they almost took out La Fiore. Serie A team. Noone seriously thinks Preston would have survived more than a round in Europe do they?

The other interpretation, and this would make me wrong, is that he tends to start well at new clubs, as he did at Basel too, but later loses steam.

Not sure I would extrapolate too much on the basis of one case.  Laryea is a killer for Canada, was often the best player at TFC, and couldn’t get into a championship side.  Does that mean that Millar is light years ahead of Richie?  Not for me.  Too many variables at play to draw too many conclusions IMO.  

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Basel having a bad year was challenging and even beating Fiorentina to get into a European final. 

No team in Championship could dream of such a thing.

It may suit his style but first, Switzerland is not a high tactic slow league. If you can impose yourself in one league after not doing so in another, the argument that you're in a lower level environment seems feasible.

Well Liam seems to think Switzerland is a slower pace than Championship. I am going to defer to his opinion, he has more experience playing in both leagues than you do. 

[Shway]

I will say imo, the Championship is a higher level than the Swiss League. What proof? The vast quality of players (and internationals). Where does my conclusion come from? The greater amount of players that move onto D1 leagues (England, France, Italy, Portugal, Germany) that are deemed higher levels than the Swiss League.  

So for me, to see Millar performing at this level, and at a promotion fighting club is better than being at Basel. If he continues to perform, he'll be in the premier league, and if not a league better than the Swiss league (respectively) and that's all he could ask - trajectory. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Basel having a bad year was challenging and even beating Fiorentina to get into a European final. 

No team in Championship could dream of such a thing.

It may suit his style but first, Switzerland is not a high tactic slow league. If you can impose yourself in one league after not doing so in another, the argument that you're in a lower level environment seems feasible.

Am I misunderstanding? Basel lost to Fiorentina, who finished 8th in Serie A and were nothing special.  The latter lost in the final to a team near the bottom of Premiership, who certainly could have been beaten by a good Championship team at a number of points last year (and were once)  By that logic the Championship is certainly better than the Swiss League.

(Therin lies the the danger of prediciting one-off ties or basing your judgement of leagues on one year's worth of European competitions even.)

 

You haven't watched much Conference League if you don't think PNE in current form would not do quite well against the likes of Silkeborg IF or FCSB from last year or someone like Aberdeen this year.

Edited September 20, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Am I misunderstanding? Basel lost to Fiorentina, who finished 8th in Serie A and were nothing special.  The latter lost in the final to a team near the bottom of Premiership, who certainly could have been beaten by a good Championship team at a number of points last year (and were once)  By that logic the Championship is certainly better than the Swiss League.

(Therin lies the the danger of prediciting one-off ties or basing your judgement of leagues on one year's worth of European competitions even.)

 

You haven't watched much Conference League if you don't think PNE in current form would not do quite well against the likes of Silkeborg IF or FCSB from last year or someone like Aberdeen this year.

You win a trophy at West Ham and then really devalue it, like it means so little to you?

Anyways, West Ham did very well in results winning those ten straight,  but you needn't devalue a team you only beat on a penalty at home and had to come back against away, 2-3. It's not like Silkeborg was a pushover.

Anyways, you're arguing PNE is at the level of a Series A team?

While I'd probably say something similar to you, that there are softer early teams in Conference, you can't ignore that if a player moves and thrives it could be the new level is more manageable. In the vast majority of cases we see here, Canadians around the world, promising guys go up a level and its harder for them, drop back down again and it's easier.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[spitfire]

I wouldn t say the championship easier at all maybe just different. The championship is much more physically fast and direct. The Swiss league is slower more work the ball through the thirds more tactical .. I think Liam is doing well so far because it’s a new start the new teammates. He got to train with the team For 2 weeks over the international break.
He feels more at home (back in the UK and close to family) and relaxed and the team gives him the ball. Which is a change. Let’s hope it continues. He will have to adapt as teams get more used to how he plays but really happy so far…

Edited September 20, 2023 by spitfire

[Obinna]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You win a trophy at West Ham and then really devalue it, like it means so little to you?

Anyways, West Ham did very well in results winning those ten straight,  but you needn't devalue a team you only beat on a penalty at home and had to come back against away, 2-3. It's not like Silkeborg was a pushover.

Anyways, you're arguing PNE is at the level of a Series A team?

While I'd probably say something similar to you, that there are softer early teams in Conference, you can't ignore that if a player moves and thrives it could be the new level is more manageable. In the vast majority of cases we see here, Canadians around the world, promising guys go up a level and its harder for them, drop back down again and it's easier.

 

I think his point is that you cannot draw conclusions in one-off ties in a cup competition. You cannot say Basel is better or worse than PNE because they had a deep run in the Conference league where they went toe-to-toe with Fiorentina. Let's not take anything away from Basel, they had a fantastic run, but to hold that up and suggest no Championship team could do the same is kind of silly.

If we want to compare Switzerland vs the Championship, to me the proponderance of data out there, along with the eye test, points to the Championship being slightly stronger. I feel that Millar has taken a slight step up with his loan, in a league (and club) that plays to his strengths, in an environment that makes him feel at home, as @spitfire says. 

We all should be very pleased and excited about his situtation and instead you are taking this opportunity to question the level of the Championship. The only person doing that here is you and it's probably because you've already decided that it's overrated because it's English and therefore you treating this loan as evidence to support your conclusion. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I think his point is that you cannot draw conclusions in one-off ties in a cup competition. You cannot say Basel is better or worse than PNE because they had a deep run in the Conference league where they went toe-to-toe with Fiorentina. Let's not take anything away from Basel, they had a fantastic run, but to hold that up and suggest no Championship team could do the same is kind of silly.

If we want to compare Switzerland vs the Championship, to me the proponderance of data out there, along with the eye test, points to the Championship being slightly stronger. I feel that Millar has taken a slight step up with his loan, in a league (and club) that plays to his strengths, in an environment that makes him feel at home, as @spitfire says. 

We all should be very pleased and excited about his situtation and instead you are taking this opportunity to question the level of the Championship. The only person doing that here is you and it's probably because you've already decided that it's overrated because it's English and therefore you treating this loan as evidence to support your conclusion. 

I also clearly stated that I could be wrong and it could be because he tends to start well at new clubs, as he did at Basel. And you ignored that.

Something which was equally corroborated by his father's opinion, in part; as was the possibility that Championship was not better but just different. Which you also ignored. 

It is true that I tend to go after categorically opinions that are unjustified or unarguable, and which are held as self-evident truths, usually in detriment, and with a bit of disdain, for a whole set of other possibilities. Like those in Europe who automatically scoff at MLS. Those sort of opinions, including  jingoistically aped views about the superiority of this or that league, for me are fair game.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Obinna]

19 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It is true that I tend to go after categorically opinions that are unjustified or unarguable, and which are held as self-evident truths, usually in detriment, and with a bit of disdain, for a whole set of other possibilities. Those sort of opinions, including  jingoistically aped views about the superiority of this or that league, for me are fair game.

Have fun with that and don't forget to look in the mirror while doing so. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

20 hours ago, Obinna said:

Have fun with that and don't forget to look in the mirror while doing so. 

I appreciate that you play watchdog and advocate for others on the board, I have done it occasionally and it's probably a noble thing to do.

Though in the case of English snobbery it's totally misplaced.

[DeRo_Is_King]

On the bench for Preston North End vs Rotherham. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

On 9/20/2023 at 12:14 AM, Unnamed Trialist said:

You win a trophy at West Ham and then really devalue it, like it means so little to you?

Anyways, West Ham did very well in results winning those ten straight,  but you needn't devalue a team you only beat on a penalty at home and had to come back against away, 2-3. It's not like Silkeborg was a pushover.

Anyways, you're arguing PNE is at the level of a Series A team?

While I'd probably say something similar to you, that there are softer early teams in Conference, you can't ignore that if a player moves and thrives it could be the new level is more manageable. In the vast majority of cases we see here, Canadians around the world, promising guys go up a level and its harder for them, drop back down again and it's easier.

 

It was a partially tongue in cheek post to point out how silly it is to use 2 Liam Millar games to confirm biases (in this case about the Championship).

It is  an achievement to go undefeated like that in any competition. (We never won ten in a row). And it was amazing as a supporter.

But my biases don't prevent me from say West Ham were a poor team for a lot of last season. We went up against Silkeborg - a very poor team - and beat them 4-2 on aggregate. At about the same time we lost to Blackburn Rovers on penalties in the Carabao Cup.  Going off those 3 games (1 more than you used) you could say that a high-flying Championship team would certainly compete well in the Conference League group stages and beyond.  Kind of silly right?

 

But you ask if PNE were a Serie A level team.  Here is an honest assessment. I haven't watched any lower level Serie A games in years. I did however watch Valladolid against their relegation rivals a fair bit the second half of last season.  That was poor football, a lot of the time. A top Championship side (as PNE are at the moment) could have - probably comfortably - survived that relegation battle.  Does that make them a La Liga level team?  If yes, then, as La Liga is almost universally considered better than Serie A, you would probably need to say they were also at some Serie A level. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

46 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

It was a partially tongue in cheek post to point out how silly it is to use 2 Liam Millar games to confirm biases (in this case about the Championship).

It is  an achievement to go undefeated like that in any competition. (We never won ten in a row). And it was amazing as a supporter.

But my biases don't prevent me from say West Ham were a poor team for a lot of last season. We went up against Silkeborg - a very poor team - and beat them 4-2 on aggregate. At about the same time we lost to Blackburn Rovers on penalties in the Carabao Cup.  Going off those 3 games (1 more than you used) you could say that a high-flying Championship team would certainly compete well in the Conference League group stages and beyond.  Kind of silly right?

 

But you ask if PNE were a Serie A level team.  Here is an honest assessment. I haven't watched any lower level Serie A games in years. I did however watch Valladolid against their relegation rivals a fair bit the second half of last season.  That was poor football, a lot of the time. A top Championship side (as PNE are at the moment) could have - probably comfortably - survived that relegation battle.  Does that make them a La Liga level team?  If yes, then, as La Liga is almost universally considered better than Serie A, you would probably need to say they were also at some Serie A level. 

Agreed Valladolid was painful, at times, especially that last month.

Today Mallorca was not at the level of a Liga team, it was shameful.

I think the post Messi/Cristiano era has hurt the whole league, along with the severe way of applying financial fair play. It's still strong, but there are moments you feel LaLiga is going through a slight dip and needs a reset.

[dyslexic nam]

Seems odd he is on the bench today.  MoTM two games ago and had a good rating in their win last time out (and played the full 90).  Not sure why he wouldn’t get the nod again today.  

[spitfire]

7 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Seems odd he is on the bench today.  MoTM two games ago and had a good rating in their win last time out (and played the full 90).  Not sure why he wouldn’t get the nod again today.  

Managing mins after playing 90 mins back to back in 3 days ..

[narduch]

Makes sense. Championship is a grind 

[dyslexic nam]

4 minutes ago, spitfire said:

Managing mins after playing 90 mins back to back in 3 days ..

Ah ok - fair enough.  

[king1010]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

It was a partially tongue in cheek post to point out how silly it is to use 2 Liam Millar games to confirm biases (in this case about the Championship).

It is  an achievement to go undefeated like that in any competition. (We never won ten in a row). And it was amazing as a supporter.

But my biases don't prevent me from say West Ham were a poor team for a lot of last season. We went up against Silkeborg - a very poor team - and beat them 4-2 on aggregate. At about the same time we lost to Blackburn Rovers on penalties in the Carabao Cup.  Going off those 3 games (1 more than you used) you could say that a high-flying Championship team would certainly compete well in the Conference League group stages and beyond.  Kind of silly right?

 

But you ask if PNE were a Serie A level team.  Here is an honest assessment. I haven't watched any lower level Serie A games in years. I did however watch Valladolid against their relegation rivals a fair bit the second half of last season.  That was poor football, a lot of the time. A top Championship side (as PNE are at the moment) could have - probably comfortably - survived that relegation battle.  Does that make them a La Liga level team?  If yes, then, as La Liga is almost universally considered better than Serie A, you would probably need to say they were also at some Serie A level. 

I dont agree with that universal statement. The top 2 teams yes, but after that I’d argue Serie A as a whole has more parity and is a touch higher than La Liga, especially since it’s seen a slight dip post Ronaldo and Messi. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by king1010

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

11 minutes ago, king1010 said:

I dont agree with that universal statement. The top 2 teams yes, but after that I’d argue Serie A as a whole has more parity and is a touch higher than La Liga, especially since it’s seen a slight dip post Ronaldo and Messi. 

They are trending closer for sure and Italy had an amazing year last year but (off the top of my head) but I would say places 3-7 have been better in Spain in most of the recent years.

Though honestly, hard for me to judge lower than that because I don't see much of the teams below the European places.

Need a Canadian or 2 in Serie A.

Edited September 23, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Back to Liam, they need to get him on especially since PNE let Jordan Hugill (of all people) score on them.

[DeRo_Is_King]

Starts for Preston North End vs West Brom. 

[blueseeka]

Watched the first half. Announcers definitely talking him up. West Brom has a defender named Furlong, who has done a great job on him. He has cut him off multiple times when Millar tries to go wide. Millar had one chance when a scrambled balled just fell into his feet and he fired it way wide. This could be PNE first loss, down 2-0 at half. Its been raining for the whole game.

Edited September 30, 2023 by blueseeka

[spitfire]

Starts again Vs Leicester 0-0 at half…