Canadian Premier League

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

4 minutes ago, Dub Narcotic said:

Actually, Rollins regularly reports things without confirmation from a second source, which is not standard practice. The CSA could easily start releasing news themselves about this sort of stuff instead of conducting a proxy war through reporters. Montagliani has not covered himself in glory around this issue.

The Fury appear to have done that as well through Fury Fanatic on twitter complete with the CPL is a "myth" stuff and the stuff about being told from the outset that if a Canadian pro league happens it won't be the way Rollins describes it. My guess and it is only that obviously is that the CPL trademark registration from Ticat HQ might have been in response to that as a way to try to make it appear something was happening imminently to put pressure on the CSA to block the Fury's USL move, but I forget the exact chronology on that. Montagliani says a lot of things that could be interpreted in different ways, so that no matter what ultimately happens he can claim credit. Being too strident and opinionated in a manner that creates bitter enemies is a one way ticket to being the next Colin Linford.

[Complete Homer]

18 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The Fury appear to have done that as well through Fury Fanatic on twitter complete with the CPL is a "myth" stuff and the stuff about being told from the outset that if a Canadian pro league happens it won't be the way Rollins describes it. My guess and it is only that obviously is that the CPL trademark registration from Ticat HQ might have been in response to that as a way to try to make it appear something was happening imminently to put pressure on the CSA to block the Fury's USL move, but I forget the exact chronology on that. Montagliani says a lot of things that could be interpreted in different ways, so that no matter what ultimately happens he can claim credit. Being too strident and opinionated in a manner that creates bitter enemies is a one way ticket to being the next Colin Linford.

If you've been following FuryFanatic on twitter at all, you'll notice that his stance on CPL softened dramatically. If he really was part of some "media proxy war" (which I doubt), it would appear that there is a truce

Also,

 

[Futballer]

The Ottawa Fury move to the USL is a Cost cutting decision:  This may then highlight the fact that the cost of a Canadian Premier League franchise that is presently in formation is more than what Ottawa Fury is willing to Pay.

The CPL will be successful in its first year and beyond so the asking price for a Franchise in its second year will also be over and above what Ottawa is willing to pay also.

What are the factors that makes the Canadian Premier League such an attractive League to be?  You guessed it !!! The success of Major League Soccer in Canada. 

What would my guesstimation on a Franchise Price Tag in year 2 be: 

My answer is: It would be open to any amount the CPL chooses as close to Major League Soccer Franchise Fees as possible.

It`s better to get in now while the price tag is reasonable. 

 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Are you directly involved in the CPL with John McGrane and Bob Young, Futballer?

[Futballer]

1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Are you directly involved in the CPL with John McGrane and Bob Young, Futballer?

No, As mentioned in other post, My Group Business plan was the first to reach the CSA desk. 

 

[Complete Homer]

Completely different direction, but I was curious what others thought about this. By all reports, and recently backed up by Sandor, FC Edmonton has no interest in CPL, even if NASL completely collapses, because they aren't interested in trying to get yet another soccer league up and running 

However, on Sandor's recent interview, he said that the Faths are really only holding out hope for a Calgary team to come into existence for NASL. Assuming that "CPL as a division of NASL" thing is truly dead (which it is by all reports dating back to 2014, including an interview with Bill Peterson), no more NASL teams are going to be sanctioned regardless, while Calgary seems like a surefire bet for CPL (Calgary Sports and Entertainment has taken a bet on every single pro league entering Calgary, even pro lacrosse).

Are the Faths really that tired of running a soccer team that they wouldn't jump ship in the case of a Calgary CPL team, something they see as necessary to make FC Edmonton viable? In that case, it makes me wonder if anyone is interested in purchasing the team, or perhaps purchasing the controlling shares. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The Faths will hold the only original franchise that is still left from next season onwards. They probably cash in big time on every expansion fee that comes along. Suspect that's their angle at this point.

[Complete Homer]

10 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The Faths will hold the only original franchise that is still left from next season onwards. They probably cash in big time on every expansion fee that comes along. Suspect that's their angle at this point.

Aren't expansion fees ~2.5 million for NASL? That's not a lot to go around when divided between 8-12 teams. Unless B class shares get more

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

47 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Completely different direction, but I was curious what others thought about this. By all reports, and recently backed up by Sandor, FC Edmonton has no interest in CPL, even if NASL completely collapses, because they aren't interested in trying to get yet another soccer league up and running 

However, on Sandor's recent interview, he said that the Faths are really only holding out hope for a Calgary team to come into existence for NASL. Assuming that "CPL as a division of NASL" thing is truly dead (which it is by all reports dating back to 2014, including an interview with Bill Peterson), no more NASL teams are going to be sanctioned regardless, while Calgary seems like a surefire bet for CPL (Calgary Sports and Entertainment has taken a bet on every single pro league entering Calgary, even pro lacrosse).

Are the Faths really that tired of running a soccer team that they wouldn't jump ship in the case of a Calgary CPL team, something they see as necessary to make FC Edmonton viable? In that case, it makes me wonder if anyone is interested in purchasing the team, or perhaps purchasing the controlling shares. 

I don't buy it.  Once it becomes the obvious option, they'll jump ship.  They wouldn't have to be the main ones involved in running it, but I have a hard time imagining that they wouldn't hop into a league with a Calgary team and maybe another regional rival (winnipeg/saskatoon/regina).  It's just illogical.  I fail to accept that these business people wouldn't jump at a lucrative business opportunity.  Who knows though.  I can see how it would be discouraging.

[lazlo_80]

29 minutes ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

I don't buy it.  Once it becomes the obvious option, they'll jump ship.  They wouldn't have to be the main ones involved in running it, but I have a hard time imagining that they wouldn't hop into a league with a Calgary team and maybe another regional rival (winnipeg/saskatoon/regina).  It's just illogical.  I fail to accept that these business people wouldn't jump at a lucrative business opportunity.  Who knows though.  I can see how it would be discouraging.

I've always taken what FCE says about the CPL with a grain of salt.

They own shares in the NASL. Meaning if they publicly say anything about considering a move to another league they erode the value of their own shares. 

That's not to say I have any idea of if they would leave or not. I just tend to agree with your suspicion of their thoughts on the league.

[-Hammer-]

1 hour ago, Complete Homer said:

Completely different direction, but I was curious what others thought about this. By all reports, and recently backed up by Sandor, FC Edmonton has no interest in CPL, even if NASL completely collapses, because they aren't interested in trying to get yet another soccer league up and running 

However, on Sandor's recent interview, he said that the Faths are really only holding out hope for a Calgary team to come into existence for NASL. Assuming that "CPL as a division of NASL" thing is truly dead (which it is by all reports dating back to 2014, including an interview with Bill Peterson), no more NASL teams are going to be sanctioned regardless, while Calgary seems like a surefire bet for CPL (Calgary Sports and Entertainment has taken a bet on every single pro league entering Calgary, even pro lacrosse).

Are the Faths really that tired of running a soccer team that they wouldn't jump ship in the case of a Calgary CPL team, something they see as necessary to make FC Edmonton viable? In that case, it makes me wonder if anyone is interested in purchasing the team, or perhaps purchasing the controlling shares. 

I suspect the Fath's have a lot of shares in NASL and are really bound to it, so they will stick by it until the bitter end. How that end will look, is anyone's guess. I suspect what will happen is when the CPL comes about, the CSA is going to grandfather FC Edmonton in and leave the door open for them, and have a Calgary team down the road.

Honestly, I see the NASL teetering on the brink of collapse at this point. You have three stable franchises in the Cosmos, Armada and Indy (and it wouldn't shock me if MLS tries to poach Indy). You have the Rowdies, Minnesota and the Fury leaving. I have serious doubts as to the survival of OKC, nor am I sold on Ft. Lauderdale turning it around. You have San Francisco entering the league and likely won't be stable from the get go. You have rumblings from Carolina and Miami with them leaving. FC Edmonton is still having attendance issues, and Peurto Rico remains a giant ball and chain to travel (I can only wince at how much money San Fran to Peurto Rico costs).

I think the Fath's go down with the ship and sell the brand, maybe become minority owners barring a miracle bounce back by the NASL.

[jedinathan]

1 hour ago, Complete Homer said:

Aren't expansion fees ~2.5 million for NASL? That's not a lot to go around when divided between 8-12 teams. Unless B class shares get more

Latest reports had it closer to 10 million.

[Complete Homer]

46 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

I think the Fath's go down with the ship and sell the brand, maybe become minority owners barring a miracle bounce back by the NASL.

This was the scenario I was thinking was likely - Faths go down with NASL and don't have any interest in continuing, and hopefully someone comes in to save the day. Not exactly sure who that would be at this point though, I ran through the list of the most wealthy Albertans and anyone over the 500 million dollar mark is either already invested in Calgary Sports and Entertainment, Oilers Entertainment Group, or has no obvious sporting interests. If Sandor says OEG would be unlikely to be interested that seems like the best bet is gone

[shermanator]

If the Fath's are holding out hope for a Calgary NASL club, they will be holding out hope forever. Joe Petrone came to Calgary almost 4 years ago to start the process of getting interest for an NASL club in Calgary, and I haven't heard a peep about it since. Meanwhile Tommy Wheeldon and Calgary Foothills are completely on board with the PDL > USL > MLS pathway, and as the next step want a USL club in the city in the next few years.

Personally, I even see USL as unrealistic in this city right now given the current expansion fees (rumoured at $5 mil), lack of a suitable stadium (nothing between 2000 and 35000 seats) and low interest in the current PDL team. Plus the question marks on whether the CSA would even allow a standalone USL team in Calgary. An NASL club coming to Calgary is even less feasible than a USL club.

If any professional soccer team were to come to Calgary, it’s going to be a CPL team, and it’s going to be a completely new ownership group.

From my viewpoint, Rollins has a lot on the line in breaking CPL news from a personal standpoint. His journalism career has one foot in the ground, and if he gets this wrong it'll be a second. That doesn't mean I think he's a  credible source on the developments, I just don't think he's making things up.

[Gopherbashi]

I'm kind of surprised that the CSA didn't offer to bankroll whatever difference OFFC would see by staying in NASL, if only for the appearance of stability.

I'm sure there's some rule against that somewhere, but it would have prevented whatever kind of exit/entrance fee shenanigans are probably going on in the background.

[Gopherbashi]

5 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

Aren't expansion fees ~2.5 million for NASL? That's not a lot to go around when divided between 8-12 teams. Unless B class shares get more

Expansion fees only give you a return if someone actually joins the league, and NASL appears so unstable that I'd be shocked if anyone was willing to trade millions away for the "privilege" of joining.

[masster]

1 hour ago, Gopherbashi said:

I'm kind of surprised that the CSA didn't offer to bankroll whatever difference OFFC would see by staying in NASL, if only for the appearance of stability.

I'm sure there's some rule against that somewhere, but it would have prevented whatever kind of exit/entrance fee shenanigans are probably going on in the background.

This crossed my mind too. If Rollins reporting is accurate and Ottawa will be joining the CPL in 2018, why does the Ottawa Fury ownership want to put their supporters and fan base through 2 league changes in 2 years for the sake of $200,000?

[TRM]

6 hours ago, shermanator said:

Personally, I even see USL as unrealistic in this city right now given the current expansion fees (rumoured at $5 mil), lack of a suitable stadium (nothing between 2000 and 35000 seats) and low interest in the current PDL team. Plus the question marks on whether the CSA would even allow a standalone USL team in Calgary. An NASL club coming to Calgary is even less feasible than a USL club.

The Stampede grandstand holds 10k, is right off downtown, right on the C-train line. It would be unavailable for Stampede setup, duration and cleanup (4-5 weeks?). Before and after that it would be available. Lots of problems to work out for field like pulling up the grass and move it for stampede then put it back. 

The rest of your analysis is pretty accurate. Not to mention the current job market sucks. We are not in a boom so money is tight for everyone and every business.

Sometimes I think Duane releases stuff trying to be first which is fraught with peril. His recent clarification that it was an "understanding" not a "threat" is much more in line with business workings. Of course if/when a CPL actually happens it will be evaluated. Zero franchise fees etc would be very enticing even if it was the same level as USL.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The CBC website's take on CPL and the Fury:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/oseg-backs-winner-with-ottawa-fury-fc-move-to-usl-1.3824164

There's also a debate raging within Canadian soccer circles about the possibility of a Canadian professional league, and what role the Fury might play in its eventual creation. It's all speculation disguised as insight.

 

[shermanator]

10 hours ago, TRM said:

The Stampede grandstand holds 10k, is right off downtown, right on the C-train line. It would be unavailable for Stampede setup, duration and cleanup (4-5 weeks?). Before and after that it would be available. Lots of problems to work out for field like pulling up the grass and move it for stampede then put it back. 

Fair point, although I don't see that venue being realistic given it's purpose as a horse track.

[Complete Homer]

17 hours ago, shermanator said:

If the Fath's are holding out hope for a Calgary NASL club, they will be holding out hope forever. Joe Petrone came to Calgary almost 4 years ago to start the process of getting interest for an NASL club in Calgary, and I haven't heard a peep about it since. Meanwhile Tommy Wheeldon and Calgary Foothills are completely on board with the PDL > USL > MLS pathway, and as the next step want a USL club in the city in the next few years.

Personally, I even see USL as unrealistic in this city right now given the current expansion fees (rumoured at $5 mil), lack of a suitable stadium (nothing between 2000 and 35000 seats) and low interest in the current PDL team. Plus the question marks on whether the CSA would even allow a standalone USL team in Calgary. An NASL club coming to Calgary is even less feasible than a USL club.

If any professional soccer team were to come to Calgary, it’s going to be a CPL team, and it’s going to be a completely new ownership group.

From my viewpoint, Rollins has a lot on the line in breaking CPL news from a personal standpoint. His journalism career has one foot in the ground, and if he gets this wrong it'll be a second. That doesn't mean I think he's a  credible source on the developments, I just don't think he's making things up.

Oh I agree that the NASL boat sailed long ago, just making the point that if a Calgary team is what Fath has been banking on, there seems to be only one way to get to it. Of all the unconfirmed ownership groups, Calgary via CSEC seems like the most logical, as it is the second largest non-MLS market and the largest market without a pro soccer team, and CSEC seems willing to take a bet on pretty much anything if it took a bet on professional lacrosse for Calgary. The quote from the CalgaryNext plans seems to imply they'd at least want to keep the possibility open:

"The multisport field centre will house a FIFA regulation pitch and a CFL regulation football field in a single configurable space. We will be able to host a major soccer match in the morning and turn over the space for football for Stampeders in the afternoon."

In terms of a venue in 2018, I'd bet CSEC would just pull a Whitecaps and tarp off the majority of McMahon until whatever stadium comes next is ready. Obviously CalgaryNext is up in the air, but CSEC will surely build something to  replace McMahon for the Stamps. The stadium looked better than I expected when I saw a game there this summer, but it is still a 56 year old stadium, something has got to give.

[BuzzAndSting]

On 2016-10-28 at 2:18 PM, Zem said:

 

Yes he is a one of the five OSEG stakeholders (albeit one of the smaller ones), as well as the Fury's club President. He was formerly the full owner of the team before OSEG was created. He is essentially the utmost authority on all things Fury although business decisions are obviously not his alone.

It's possible John Pugh might personally want to join the CPL, but he also has four partners who aren't football people and might not share his vision, so who knows.

All of the OSEG partners have been working on a pro soccer team in Ottawa for almost as long as they have been working on the CFL team. One of them is part owner of a League Championship (?) team in England. They are very committed to the Fury.

[Zem]

17 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

All of the OSEG partners have been working on a pro soccer team in Ottawa for almost as long as they have been working on the CFL team. One of them is part owner of a League Championship (?) team in England. They are very committed to the Fury.

Yes, Bill Shenkman is a minority owner of Millwall (League One).

The question I was addressing had nothing to do with their commitment to the organisation (I'm sure they all want it to succeed). I was saying it's possible they might not share JP's vision for an eventual move to the CPL, if we are assuming that's what he wants to do based in the fact he's on the CSA's board, i.e. we have a vague reason to believe Pugh would want to join the league, but we have no idea what the other four think. I hope they intend on joining the CPL, but we have no way of knowing currently.

[TRM]

11 hours ago, shermanator said:

Fair point, although I don't see that venue being realistic given it's purpose as a horse track.

Ain't been any horse races at Stampede grounds outside of the Stampede for a long time. Track at Stampede park closed in 2008. Century Downs is east of Cross Iron Mills mall and that is where the horse races are now. A facility with an opening in its schedule. Just saying.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

10 hours ago, Zem said:

...if we are assuming that's what he wants to do based in the fact he's on the CSA's board, i.e. we have a vague reason to believe Pugh would want to join the league, but we have no idea what the other four think...

John Pugh is on the CSA Board as the representative of the five professional teams. Don't think there's any reason to assume anything either way about his attitude towards the emergence of a CPL based on that. It's a bit like assuming an NDP or Conservative MP supports Justin Trudeau's policies on a particular issue simply because he is a member of parliament and the majority there supports something.

On 2016/10/29 at 7:13 AM, TRM said:

Sometimes I think Duane releases stuff trying to be first which is fraught with peril. His recent clarification that it was an "understanding" not a "threat" is much more in line with business workings. Of course if/when a CPL actually happens it will be evaluated. Zero franchise fees etc would be very enticing even if it was the same level as USL.

 

That hasty apparent U-turn definitely looked like a prime example of why mainstream journalists usually need two independent sources before a newspaper will run an exclusive. His initial source probably spun things to make it sound more significant than it really was to push a particular agenda and then a second person probably contacted him to fill in the missing details.