Richmond "Richie" Laryea

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

For all you EPL fans...how much of a turn over is there usually for a promoted team??  Maybe 3-4 key pieces, add some squad players??  They cant replace the whole roster....can they??  

That sounds right to me, generally speaking, but Forest are traditionally a top flight club. My understanding is they are going to do what it takes to make sure they stick. This may not be a situation like Norwich or Fulham, clubs that seem to yo-yo back and forth consistently. They're going to aim for a long and extended stay in the EPL. What that means in terms of how many players they turn over is anyone's guess, but my assumption is that big money will be spent to ensure they have the tools to survive.

Will they spend big money replacing Spence? That I don't know.

Part of me assumes the big money will be spent elsewhere, considering the nature of the position. Rarely do you spend your big money on an outside back. Maybe they'll someone in the 5-8M range, a modest sum for a Premier League side, but probably enough to buy you the type of player that can start, if needed. Richie and whoever they bring in can battle it out, and may the best player win. 

Another part of me thinks they'll spend significantly to replace a significant piece (Spence). A big signing would obviously make Richie's task tougher.

Maybe if they are shrewd they can find a gem for cheap, or on loan. That's certainly what they did with Spence. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Obinna

[Approve My Account Pls]

Forest are now rumoured to be looking at Neco Williams or Issa Kabore at RB

 

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2022/06/10/nottingham-forest-want-to-sign-15m-liverpool-defender/

[Obinna]

50 minutes ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

Forest are now rumoured to be looking at Neco Williams or Issa Kabore at RB

 

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2022/06/10/nottingham-forest-want-to-sign-15m-liverpool-defender/

15M on Nico Williams, eh? 

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Another part of me thinks they'll spend significantly to replace a significant piece (Spence). A big signing would obviously make Richie's task tougher.

 

[prairiecanuck]

6 hours ago, Bison44 said:

For all you EPL fans...how much of a turn over is there usually for a promoted team??  Maybe 3-4 key pieces, add some squad players??  They cant replace the whole roster....can they??  

I remember getting into an argument about this. It can be a lot of turnover, and it can be adding one or two players.  I follow West Brom and the last time they were promoted there was very little turnover and most of the team that started in the championship started the next year in the EPL.

[frmr]

Depends on the owner really. Obviously staying up pays for itself so if they have deep enough pockets they'll spend to ensure that's the case. I know he also owns Olympiakos and a quick cursory search says he's worth $600M so that's not much in terms of PL owners. Who knows if he can secure outside funds to pump into the squad though. Realistically, after losing Spence he'll probably want to bring in a replacement.

[costarg]

6 hours ago, frmr said:

Depends on the owner really. Obviously staying up pays for itself so if they have deep enough pockets they'll spend to ensure that's the case. I know he also owns Olympiakos and a quick cursory search says he's worth $600M so that's not much in terms of PL owners. Who knows if he can secure outside funds to pump into the squad though. Realistically, after losing Spence he'll probably want to bring in a replacement.

My question is.... does he only have $600m cause he hides the income from the illegal business', or does he only have $600m cause he spent the rest on killing anyone who speaks or gets in his way?

[prairiecanuck]

Forest had 5 loan players returned to their club.   4 of them started in the final match for promotion.  Keinan Davis and Zinkernagel are both attacking players.   Spence at right back and garner was a holding midfielder. 

Attacking players cost money.   If the club brings these players back or gets new players to replace it's going to cost money.  

Richie has value in his contract length and how much he's being paid.  There could be a real opportunity for Laryea if Spence goes elsewhere and Richie does well in summer training.

[RS]

59 minutes ago, prairiecanuck said:

Forest had 5 loan players returned to their club.   4 of them started in the final match for promotion.  Keinan Davis and Zinkernagel are both attacking players.   Spence at right back and garner was a holding midfielder. 

Attacking players cost money.   If the club brings these players back or gets new players to replace it's going to cost money.  

Richie has value in his contract length and how much he's being paid.  There could be a real opportunity for Laryea if Spence goes elsewhere and Richie does well in summer training.

Spence is going to Spurs.

[Free kick]

23 hours ago, Bison44 said:

For all you EPL fans...how much of a turn over is there usually for a promoted team??  Maybe 3-4 key pieces, add some squad players??  They cant replace the whole roster....can they??  

Despite what some will have you believe here,  there is typically a lot more turnover than that.  I checked it one time several years back and found that it it was a majority of the squad in the sample i looked at; and it was over several years.   When this topic came up a few months back, someone tried to counter that is was only a few players.  but they were looking at only the pandemic affected seasons.    

Realistically,  how could you expect (and sell to your fans) to stay up in the premier league with second division talent?  You have to show that your are spending the £100 million of new found money and making an effort to stay up otherwise, if you go back down next season, the lynch mobs will be out claiming you pocketed all that money and made no effort to stay up.  

If you can find it,  go back and look at the years that Paul Pescisolido's team moved up.   Check and see what happened,  and he was their most heralded player at the time. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Free kick

[prairiecanuck]

49 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Despite what some will have you believe here,  there is typically a lot more turnover than that.  I checked it one time several years back and found that it it was a majority of the squad in the sample i looked at; and it was over several years.   When this topic came up a few months back, someone tried to counter that is was only a few players.  but they were looking at only the pandemic affected seasons.    

Realistically,  how could you expect (and sell to your fans) to stay up in the premier league with second division talent?  You have to show that your are spending the £100 million of new found money and making an effort to stay up otherwise, if you go back down next season, the lynch mobs will be out claiming you pocketed all that money and made no effort to stay up.  

If you can find it,  go back and look at the years that Paul Pescisolido's team moved up.   Check and see what happened,  and he was their most heralded player at the time. 

Here is Norwich championship lineup:

https://www.google.com/search?q=norwich+city+shedule&rlz=1C1CHZN_enCA971CA971&ei=T8akYtvrKdzJ0PEP5bqw6AE&ved=0ahUKEwibz_WX7KX4AhXcJDQIHWUdDB0Q4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=norwich+city+shedule&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgAEA0yBggAEB4QFjIICAAQHhAIEA0yCAgAEB4QCBANMggIABAeEAgQDTIICAAQHhAIEA0yCAgAEB4QCBANOgcIABBHELADOgcIABCwAxBDOgoIABDkAhCwAxgBOg8ILhDUAhDIAxCwAxBDGAI6DAguEMgDELADEEMYAjoECAAQQzoECC4QQzoFCAAQgAQ6CQgAEB4QyQMQFjoFCCEQoAFKBAhBGABKBAhGGAFQgQFYxQtgjw1oAXABeACAAaABiAGhCJIBAzAuOJgBAKABAcgBEcABAdoBBggBEAEYCdoBBggCEAEYCA&sclient=gws-wiz#sie=m;/g/11hjzl9x81;2;/m/0355pl;ln;fp;1;;

Here is Norwich EPL lineup the next year.  I see a lot of similar names:

https://www.google.com/search?q=norwich+city+schedule&rlz=1C1CHZN_enCA971CA971&oq=norwich+city+sched&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j69i57j0i22i30l7.6648j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#sie=m;/g/11q2tclyk6;2;/m/02_tc;ln;fp;1;;

[Free kick]

18 minutes ago, prairiecanuck said:

Here is Norwich championship lineup:

https://www.google.com/search?q=norwich+city+shedule&rlz=1C1CHZN_enCA971CA971&ei=T8akYtvrKdzJ0PEP5bqw6AE&ved=0ahUKEwibz_WX7KX4AhXcJDQIHWUdDB0Q4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=norwich+city+shedule&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgAEA0yBggAEB4QFjIICAAQHhAIEA0yCAgAEB4QCBANMggIABAeEAgQDTIICAAQHhAIEA0yCAgAEB4QCBANOgcIABBHELADOgcIABCwAxBDOgoIABDkAhCwAxgBOg8ILhDUAhDIAxCwAxBDGAI6DAguEMgDELADEEMYAjoECAAQQzoECC4QQzoFCAAQgAQ6CQgAEB4QyQMQFjoFCCEQoAFKBAhBGABKBAhGGAFQgQFYxQtgjw1oAXABeACAAaABiAGhCJIBAzAuOJgBAKABAcgBEcABAdoBBggBEAEYCdoBBggCEAEYCA&sclient=gws-wiz#sie=m;/g/11hjzl9x81;2;/m/0355pl;ln;fp;1;;

Here is Norwich EPL lineup the next year.  I see a lot of similar names:

https://www.google.com/search?q=norwich+city+schedule&rlz=1C1CHZN_enCA971CA971&oq=norwich+city+sched&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j69i57j0i22i30l7.6648j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#sie=m;/g/11q2tclyk6;2;/m/02_tc;ln;fp;1;;

Pandemic

 

Edit.:  plus in the world of statistics,  a sample of one would never get you anywhere 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Free kick

[prairiecanuck]

54 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Despite what some will have you believe here,  there is typically a lot more turnover than that.  I checked it one time several years back and found that it it was a majority of the squad in the sample i looked at; and it was over several years.   When this topic came up a few months back, someone tried to counter that is was only a few players.  but they were looking at only the pandemic affected seasons.    

Realistically,  how could you expect (and sell to your fans) to stay up in the premier league with second division talent?  You have to show that your are spending the £100 million of new found money and making an effort to stay up otherwise, if you go back down next season, the lynch mobs will be out claiming you pocketed all that money and made no effort to stay up.  

If you can find it,  go back and look at the years that Paul Pescisolido's team moved up.   Check and see what happened,  and he was their most heralded player at the time. 

Promoted teams don't get 100 million in new found money or not that much in the very next year.  Norwich got 79 Mil in TV revenue and 2.7 mil in merit.  Now they will also get parachute payments so additional money in subsequent years.  If a promoted team budgets 50 to 70 mil in transfers, they likely don't spend it all in the summer budgeting some for the January window.  Decent players far from true difference makers can cost 15 to 20 mil.  West brom have spent 15 mil on players that did not help at all.  It's impossible for a championship club to replace every player at every position.  Generally speaking promoted teams get promoted because they have several good players already valued in the 10 mil range.  Replacing them would be lateral moves. 

[Free kick]

5 minutes ago, prairiecanuck said:

Promoted teams don't get 100 million in new found money or not that much in the very next year.  Norwich got 79 Mil in TV revenue and 2.7 mil in merit.  Now they will also get parachute payments so additional money in subsequent years.  If a promoted team budgets 50 to 70 mil in transfers, they likely don't spend it all in the summer budgeting some for the January window.  Decent players far from true difference makers can cost 15 to 20 mil.  West brom have spent 15 mil on players that did not help at all.  It's impossible for a championship club to replace every player at every position.  Generally speaking promoted teams get promoted because they have several good players already valued in the 10 mil range.  Replacing them would be lateral moves. 

I can quote a source:

Nottingham Forest transfer news LIVE: Garner agent responds, Spence latest and Williams linked - Nottinghamshire Live (nottinghampost.com)

quote: " The Reds are expected to be busy this summer, with head coach Steve Cooper set to have £100m to spend on new arrivals. After securing promotion to the Premier League in the play-off final at Wembley, Forest have continued to be linked with a number of players, including Man City's Issa Kabore and Liverpool's Neco Williams as potential Djed Spence replacements."

[Bison44]

I didnt make it a 2 week project, I just looked at Leicester the year they came up, and although they finished 14th and brought in a bunch of new players there were still a good number (around 10) of the  "2nd div" players that played a lot that first season in EPL.  I have no idea what that means for Richie. As long as where ever he might end up the coach gives him  enough time to show his skills.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

Related, I follow Espanyol, they are the team with the 6-7th most seasons in La Liga over its history, same with overall points, more or less. And their budget is usually around 10th-11th of the 20 teams. So mostly a top flight team. 

They went down to 2nd in 19-20, kept the core group including Raul de Tomás who was even then on the national team radar, went back up the next season, and this year, kept basically the same core group. RdT still getting calls for the national team. Mostly Spanish players, many from their own academy. A few other guys but no one of importance for the group. IMO it was not a very good side, and their league results, safe from relegation but bottom half, reflected that. 

And they have a Chinese owner with deep pockets. 

Some teams have a model when they go up into top flight and they can keep their 2nd tier core together and just add key pieces. Then adjust if it doesn't work. Others make wholesale changes, often because of the kind of well-off ambitious owner who won't take any risks with the guys who got him there.

[prairiecanuck]

2 hours ago, Free kick said:

I can quote a source:

Nottingham Forest transfer news LIVE: Garner agent responds, Spence latest and Williams linked - Nottinghamshire Live (nottinghampost.com)

quote: " The Reds are expected to be busy this summer, with head coach Steve Cooper set to have £100m to spend on new arrivals. After securing promotion to the Premier League in the play-off final at Wembley, Forest have continued to be linked with a number of players, including Man City's Issa Kabore and Liverpool's Neco Williams as potential Djed Spence replacements."

The have an owner of reasonable wealth.  Some teams promoted have spent that level.  Fulham spent 100 mil and then got immediately relegated, so it doesn't always pay off.  Forest do seem poised to spend some dough.  We'll se where they spend it.

[scullion44]

Some of these players Forest are rumoured with are really not that good.  Now it’s Maintland Niles. I have a hard time believing Richie couldn’t compete with him. He’s overrated. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by scullion44

[Kent]

On 6/11/2022 at 12:47 PM, prairiecanuck said:

Here is Norwich championship lineup:

https://www.google.com/search?q=norwich+city+shedule&rlz=1C1CHZN_enCA971CA971&ei=T8akYtvrKdzJ0PEP5bqw6AE&ved=0ahUKEwibz_WX7KX4AhXcJDQIHWUdDB0Q4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=norwich+city+shedule&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgAEA0yBggAEB4QFjIICAAQHhAIEA0yCAgAEB4QCBANMggIABAeEAgQDTIICAAQHhAIEA0yCAgAEB4QCBANOgcIABBHELADOgcIABCwAxBDOgoIABDkAhCwAxgBOg8ILhDUAhDIAxCwAxBDGAI6DAguEMgDELADEEMYAjoECAAQQzoECC4QQzoFCAAQgAQ6CQgAEB4QyQMQFjoFCCEQoAFKBAhBGABKBAhGGAFQgQFYxQtgjw1oAXABeACAAaABiAGhCJIBAzAuOJgBAKABAcgBEcABAdoBBggBEAEYCdoBBggCEAEYCA&sclient=gws-wiz#sie=m;/g/11hjzl9x81;2;/m/0355pl;ln;fp;1;;

Here is Norwich EPL lineup the next year.  I see a lot of similar names:

https://www.google.com/search?q=norwich+city+schedule&rlz=1C1CHZN_enCA971CA971&oq=norwich+city+sched&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j69i57j0i22i30l7.6648j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#sie=m;/g/11q2tclyk6;2;/m/02_tc;ln;fp;1;;

Laryea wasn't a starter for Forest. He was at best a bench player (and often not even that). If you look at the players that were on the bench in your Norwich example when they were in the Championship, if I'm not mistaken, only one of them show up on the game sheet in the Premier League version of the team.

[Corazon]

14 minutes ago, Kent said:

Laryea wasn't a starter for Forest. He was at best a bench player (and often not even that). If you look at the players that were on the bench in your Norwich example when they were in the Championship, if I'm not mistaken, only one of them show up on the game sheet in the Premier League version of the team.

I'm not saying Laryea won't breakthrough for Nottingham next season but I agree with your point.  A great example with this Norwich club that most Canadians should be familiar with is with Simeon Jackson.  He went from one of the best players on the Norwich team in the Championship and scoring 13 goals to starting only 8 games in the Premier League the following season.  He was still able to contribute throughout the season but moving from 2nd to 3rd on the depth chart took a toll on his minutes.  Luckily for Laryea, the player ahead of him on the depth chart is likely leaving and it may depend on who Norwich plans to bring in to replace Spence.

[InglewoodJack]

Assuming he won’t play significant minutes in the prem because he couldn’t even see the field in the championship, maybe his best option is to leverage his coach’s praises + a strong World Cup showing to get sold to a solid championship side in January.

[Kent]

24 minutes ago, Corazon said:

I'm not saying Laryea won't breakthrough for Nottingham next season but I agree with your point.  A great example with this Norwich club that most Canadians should be familiar with is with Simeon Jackson.  He went from one of the best players on the Norwich team in the Championship and scoring 13 goals to starting only 8 games in the Premier League the following season.  He was still able to contribute throughout the season but moving from 2nd to 3rd on the depth chart took a toll on his minutes.  Luckily for Laryea, the player ahead of him on the depth chart is likely leaving and it may depend on who Norwich plans to bring in to replace Spence.

Exactly. I almost brought up Jackson as well. It was probably that experience that really framed my viewpoint, and therefor my concern that Laryea will really, really, struggle to get minutes if he somehow stays with Forest this season. I would love to be proven wrong, because for a couple years I have thought Laryea is good enough to play in the EPL, given the right fit of a team. I don't think he would look out of place there.

[Obinna]

21 minutes ago, Corazon said:

I'm not saying Laryea won't breakthrough for Nottingham next season but I agree with your point.  A great example with this Norwich club that most Canadians should be familiar with is with Simeon Jackson.  He went from one of the best players on the Norwich team in the Championship and scoring 13 goals to starting only 8 games in the Premier League the following season.  He was still able to contribute throughout the season but moving from 2nd to 3rd on the depth chart took a toll on his minutes.  Luckily for Laryea, the player ahead of him on the depth chart is likely leaving and it may depend on who Norwich plans to bring in to replace Spence.

Not that I disagree with this, but a few thoughts on Jackson's time in the EPL compared with how Richie may fare.

Firstly, I think Jackson in the Championship was mostly a finisher of plays, not a creator. That being the case, his technical limitations never mattered at that level. However, with the play being much better in the top flight, he wasn't very effective with the ball, plus the lack of chances saw his output plummet.

That's what I recall, though I would be interested to see if others share that memory of how it went down.

With Richie, we are talking about a midfielder or wide player who, despite having an unconventional style, was/is above average technically for the Championship level. His close control, first touch and dribbling (I believe) are more suitable for the EPL than Jackson's was, plus he is not in a position where a lack of goals will affect his minutes.

That's not to say Richie won't have a battle to see the field, let alone even staying at the club rather than being sent off on loan, but it is to say I am confident he can have more success than Jackson if given the chance.

[Kadenge]

Calm down guys. Perhaps he does get loaned out or stays with NF, but the few minutes he played is not necessarily indicative of where he ends up this season. With a Jan transfer &  no pre-season, he wasn't going to dislodge Spence and the mgr went with the players that got him to 3rd place. For the playoffs, it's not unreasonable for the mgr to go with his vets or players that have been on the team from day one,  with a spot on the bench vs Laryea especially given that Spence would play every minute barring injury. I think Laryea understood that from his reaction to his mgr after the final whistle at Wembley. Is Richie good enough for the EPL? I don't know but he is a very good player. Probably a top 3 RB and possibly the best RWB in MLS. If he can perform well vs Mexico & USA then why not EPL? btw, when he did play for NF he wasn't too shabby

[El Diego]

I saw that there are some rumours that Forest are kicking the tires on Ferdi Kadioglu. Would fit with them as a left wing back, which would also cut into Richie's pathway to playing time.

Would be surprised if Forest don't sign both a left wing back and right wing back, splashing some decent cash on the right wing back

[narduch]

Probably going to be loaned out