Richmond "Richie" Laryea

[Bigandy]

16 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Yes I do think he would score close enough to a "championship level" baseline on whatever attribute you want to consider, and in addition I thnk he would score relatively high on things like speed, agility and dribbling. 

At the end of the day, what you see as "weaknesses" in his game are things I don't view him as being particularly weak in.

Seems like an "agree to disagree" scenario at this point. 

100%. Its totally fair to agree to disagree if we are comparing apples to apples. 

17 minutes ago, Obinna said:

And this is my problem with your argument. You are being very ignorant of his game here.

How many players can dribble and shift defenders with their opposite foot, in a game? Hell, there are plenty of pro players who flat out shy away from using their left foot to pass the ball, let alone dribble with it. His comfort with his left foot goes beyond the norm of what an average right-footed pro can do. He's very ambidextrous. Not afraid to shoot with that left peg, either. 

Again, close control, dribbling, fast player, agile player, ability to play out wide or central, can play long, can play short. 

But you read that and decide it's too simplistic of a way to view the matter. And to make it worse you call it a "cop out", as if I am somehow grasping at straws or trying to hide behind some sort of bias or hidden agenda. I am just calling it how I see it. You don't have to agree with it. 

I dont personally weight being ambidextrous as a massive criterion on completeness of a player. It counts, but the weight of it is not incredibly significant for me. The cop out is to say that any 2 way player is complete. Your argument is much more than just being 2 way so my lazy typing/explanation wasnt trying to imply your opinion is a cop out, but rather that the notion of a 2 way player being complete is a copout. I think we both would agree that your argument and laryeas ability is much more than just "being a 2 way player". My bad, sorry for the poor clarity. 

As for the olive branch, I felt it was always extended. I love the different view point and challenging how I see laryea. I know youre very intentional and thought out with your opinions and sometimes my typing is a bit loose so I hope i didnt offend you. 

Hes certainly a candidate for complete player on CMNT. 

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

100%. Its totally fair to agree to disagree if we are comparing apples to apples. 

I dont personally weight being ambidextrous as a massive criterion on completeness of a player. It counts, but the weight of it is not incredibly significant for me. The cop out is to say that any 2 way player is complete. Your argument is much more than just being 2 way so my lazy typing/explanation wasnt trying to imply your opinion is a cop out, but rather that the notion of a 2 way player being complete is a copout. I think we both would agree that your argument and laryeas ability is much more than just "being a 2 way player". My bad, sorry for the poor clarity. 

As for the olive branch, I felt it was always extended. I love the different view point and challenging how I see laryea. I know youre very intentional and thought out with your opinions and sometimes my typing is a bit loose so I hope i didnt offend you. 

Hes certainly a candidate for complete player on CMNT. 

Appreciate the explaination and dialog and no offense is taken, cheers.

Agree with most of what you wrote here.

The one thing I would chime in on is the comment about being a 2-way player...

I agree with you that one cannot claim every 2-way player is complete.

What I want to add here is that being a 2-way player, for me, is simply another slice of the pie, rather than being the whole pie, so to speak.

Being able to use both feet well, in a game, would be another slice. Being able to use the outside of your foot, in a game, (which something Staq does better than anyone in the pool) is yet another slice. Speed would have to be a slice too, as would endurance, shooting, vision, keeping possession, etc., but I would also say positional flexibility is an important slice, at least to me.

Cheers!

[Bigandy]

7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Appreciate the explaination and dialog and no offense is taken, cheers.

Agree with most of what you wrote here.

The one thing I would chime in on is the comment about being a 2-way player...

I agree with you that one cannot claim every 2-way player is complete.

What I want to add here is that being a 2-way player, for me, is simply another slice of the pie, rather than being the whole pie, so to speak.

Being able to use both feet well, in a game, would be another slice. Being able to use the outside of your foot, in a game, (which something Staq does better than anyone in the pool) is yet another slice. Speed would have to be a slice too, as would endurance, shooting, vision, keeping possession, etc., but I would also say positional flexibility is an important slice, at least to me.

Cheers!

I agree and would further your positional flexibility with how pep sees the game. Its not necessarily that the RW can also play Fullback, its more that the player can fill gaps and roles across the field. Silva is a Cam playing thru balls and then hes running channels to defend a winger when walker is caught up field. Obviously CMNT quality isnt city but laryea, david, staq and kone are my votes for guys who can fill these dynamic "positions" during the play. 

To limit versatility(not implying thats what youre doing) to just a position name does a disservice to a guy like laryea who can cover at CB when vitoria gets caught or make a run like a winger when buchanan tucks inside. etc 

[Kent]

I didn't read about 80-90% of this debate, but I'm not sure why it matters how Laryea does things. All players rely to a certain extent on their athleticism. That's why they aren't good enough once they get old enough.

As for Laryea, I didn't watch him with Vancouver, but I have always liked him with TFC and Canada. Before he moved to NF I thought given the right situation he could fit right in at the EPL level (right situation includes the team being a lower half of the table team, I don't think he could play for an EPL team that was competing for European spots). I don't know if he is dropping below the level he was at previously since I didn't watch him in Vancouver though.

And to add to iforgetwhoitwas stats about his performances in the World Cup, if I remember correctly he also had a penalty shout in one of the games (Belgium I think?). It was a play where it was about clever placement of his own foot rather than the opposing player having to foul him, but still it was the kind of play that gets called sometimes, and maybe if Laryea was a bigger name he would have gotten the call.

[Bigandy]

9 hours ago, Kent said:

I didn't read about 80-90% of this debate, but I'm not sure why it matters how Laryea does things. All players rely to a certain extent on their athleticism. That's why they aren't good enough once they get old enough.

As for Laryea, I didn't watch him with Vancouver, but I have always liked him with TFC and Canada. Before he moved to NF I thought given the right situation he could fit right in at the EPL level (right situation includes the team being a lower half of the table team, I don't think he could play for an EPL team that was competing for European spots). I don't know if he is dropping below the level he was at previously since I didn't watch him in Vancouver though.

And to add to iforgetwhoitwas stats about his performances in the World Cup, if I remember correctly he also had a penalty shout in one of the games (Belgium I think?). It was a play where it was about clever placement of his own foot rather than the opposing player having to foul him, but still it was the kind of play that gets called sometimes, and maybe if Laryea was a bigger name he would have gotten the call.

It only mattered in the context of the debate. The topic was is laryea well rounded or does he have really good strengths that can compensate for other weaknesses. If we are talking about how good laryea is and if he can play EPL ball, then it certianly doenst matter how he does things. 

[InglewoodJack]

NF just got slapped with a violation of the premier league’s finance rules because they’ve spent and lost too much. Laryea’s sale won’t fix their situation obviously, but they’re probably going to be inclined to sell him for pennies on the dollar since they can’t spend until they sell. 

Edited January 17 by InglewoodJack

[Kadenge]

14 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

NF just got slapped with a violation of the premier league’s finance rules because they’ve spent and lost too much. Laryea’s sale won’t fix their situation obviously, but they’re probably going to be inclined to sell him for pennies on the dollar since they can’t spend until they sell. 

did they get docked 10 points? If they did there's a good chance they will face relegation

[InglewoodJack]

9 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

did they get docked 10 points? If they did there's a good chance they will face relegation

It hasn’t been decided yet, though Everton is also up for the same violation and I would think if one gets docked the other would too (again). If all this happened with the standings as they are today, Forest would only be two points back from Burnley for that last safe spot.
 

Manchester City also has their hearing scheduled for their 4739 violations too. “””obviously”””” if Forest and Everton get docked, City should just get relegated to League 2 considering how egregious their spending has been, keeping Forrest well into the safe zone!!

Edited January 17 by InglewoodJack

[Bigandy]

9 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

It hasn’t been decided yet, though Everton is also up for the same violation and I would think if one gets docked the other would too (again). If all this happened with the standings as they are today, Forest would only be two points back from Burnley for that last safe spot.
 

Manchester City also has their hearing scheduled for their 4739 violations too. “””obviously”””” if Forest and Everton get docked, City should just get relegated to League 2 considering how egregious their spending has been, keeping Forrest well into the safe zone!!

Citys net spend over the past 5 years is 6th highest in the prem and only 2m more than aston villa. Obviously there spending pre pep was a bit wild but city are incredible with their sales and then reinvest in the squad so even though their spending is high, so is their selling. 

Outrageous to think city made 8m in a transfer window where they bought haaland 60m , phillips for 50m, akanji for 20, gomez for 15 and perrone for 11m 

[InglewoodJack]

14 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Citys net spend over the past 5 years is 6th highest in the prem and only 2m more than aston villa. Obviously there spending pre pep was a bit wild but city are incredible with their sales and then reinvest in the squad so even though their spending is high, so is their selling. 

Outrageous to think city made 8m in a transfer window where they bought haaland 60m , phillips for 50m, akanji for 20, gomez for 15 and perrone for 11m 

I may be confusing this with other allegations, but don’t a lot of these charges stem from offenses that took place from like 2011-2015 or some similar timeframe? 

City has been really good with their academy as of late- it looks like they’re somehow pulling off being the richest club in the world while also having an extremely productive academy a la Brighton. 

Haaland for €60M was insane. The way his agents have planned out his career and made it so easy for him to seamlessly move from team to team until he reached the top is one of the greatest moves of all time. 

[Stryker911]

Lots of banter on here, but little to do with actual facts for Richie. Fact is, MLS camps have started, the transfer window is open, and he currently has nowhere to play.

[Bigandy]

7 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I may be confusing this with other allegations, but don’t a lot of these charges stem from offenses that took place from like 2011-2015 or some similar timeframe? 

City has been really good with their academy as of late- it looks like they’re somehow pulling off being the richest club in the world while also having an extremely productive academy a la Brighton. 

Haaland for €60M was insane. The way his agents have planned out his career and made it so easy for him to seamlessly move from team to team until he reached the top is one of the greatest moves of all time. 

Ya, I think it basically starts from 2009 and goes to 2018. In 2018 they did a 5 year investigation that led to the initial charges last year. 

They do have a fantastic academy but outside of palmer, they havnt had huge sales. Most of their guys are buy and sell and city just know how to maximize their sale value. 

Agreed on haaland. 

[Obinna]

35 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

Lots of banter on here, but little to do with actual facts for Richie. Fact is, MLS camps have started, the transfer window is open, and he currently has nowhere to play.

That's what usually happens in absense of any real facts to discuss. Hopefully some news on his situation comes out soon. Richie (and Hoilett) are two important pieces of this team who seem to be stuck in limbo at the moment. I think Laryea's situation gets resolved soon and Hoilett has yet to miss a season, or half season, despite signing on late a few times. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Stryker911 said:

Lots of banter on here, but little to do with actual facts for Richie. Fact is, MLS camps have started, the transfer window is open, and he currently has nowhere to play.

But he's on contract.

I think he must be a bit of a dunce, or his agent.

[jdheid]

Sorry, if this has been said, but does anyone know if he's in England training with Forest?

[InglewoodJack]

4 minutes ago, jdheid said:

Sorry, if this has been said, but does anyone know if he's in England training with Forest?

Don’t think so. Him and his wife have been posting pictures in Toronto & California as of late. 

[Watchmen]

On 1/17/2024 at 7:53 AM, Stryker911 said:

Lots of banter on here, but little to do with actual facts for Richie. Fact is, MLS camps have started, the transfer window is open, and he currently has nowhere to play.

He has somewhere to train, and it's NF. I'm sure they're not upset he's not over, but I'm guessing they also couldn't prevent him from doing so without some labour infractions.

[SoccMan]

He should be with NF and it’s up to them how they deal with him. Either he trains with the first or even their reserve team or whatever they call it now or even play a few games with their Under 23 team ? There is no reason for him to be here and not over there . Don’t know how these loans work but when a loan expires and temporarily does not have a team to be with said player should be back with their team training until the next loan .

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Don’t think so. Him and his wife have been posting pictures in Toronto & California as of late. 

Probably takes time for Forest to arrange everything so him going back to England is probably a matter of time, if for no other reason than to train. 

Just speculating, but maybe California and Toronto is him taking a vacation and visiting family before having to go back to the UK for a spell?

[GasPed]

12 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Probably takes time for Forest to arrange everything so him going back to England is probably a matter of time, if for no other reason than to train. 

Just speculating, but maybe California and Toronto is him taking a vacation and visiting family before having to go back to the UK for a spell?

Or maybe there's loan/sale talks going on with Toronto or California teams? (Wishful thinking...)

Edited January 18 by GasPed

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Probably takes time for Forest to arrange everything so him going back to England is probably a matter of time, if for no other reason than to train. 

Just speculating, but maybe California and Toronto is him taking a vacation and visiting family before having to go back to the UK for a spell?

It was a vacation- I think someone got married there (Kamal Miller maybe?) because he's in a ton of pictures with other CANMNT/MLS players too. Mostly just saying how he's been spending his offseason in North America.

 

I just really don't think it makes sense for him to go back to England just to train with NF. I know a lot of people here want him to exercise his right to play with the team that owns his rights, but he's clearly not valued there, so at best, he'd be practising with the reserves or alone, and being that he's several months out of in-season form and coming back from vacation, he's probably not in great off-season form, I don't even know if he could hang with their squad in practice right away. He'd likely need some ramp up time at the gym and through solo drills which he could just do on his own close to home anyways. By the time he'd be in top shape, he'll probably have a much better idea of where he'll be playing, and will likely just go train with them before long.

[SthMelbRed]

On 1/18/2024 at 2:25 AM, Bigandy said:

Citys net spend over the past 5 years is 6th highest in the prem and only 2m more than aston villa. Obviously there spending pre pep was a bit wild but city are incredible with their sales and then reinvest in the squad so even though their spending is high, so is their selling. 

Outrageous to think city made 8m in a transfer window where they bought haaland 60m , phillips for 50m, akanji for 20, gomez for 15 and perrone for 11m 

City's 115 charges mostly relate to the fact that they've consistently lied about the numbers in their official accounts. So, take that for what you will.

Besides, Haaland only cost 60m if you ignore the massive payouts to his agent and father to get him to sign, which is why every other team that enquired about him, knowing how low his release clause was with Dortmund, didn't pursue it any further.

[Obinna]

20 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

It was a vacation- I think someone got married there (Kamal Miller maybe?) because he's in a ton of pictures with other CANMNT/MLS players too. Mostly just saying how he's been spending his offseason in North America.

 

I just really don't think it makes sense for him to go back to England just to train with NF. I know a lot of people here want him to exercise his right to play with the team that owns his rights, but he's clearly not valued there, so at best, he'd be practising with the reserves or alone, and being that he's several months out of in-season form and coming back from vacation, he's probably not in great off-season form, I don't even know if he could hang with their squad in practice right away. He'd likely need some ramp up time at the gym and through solo drills which he could just do on his own close to home anyways. By the time he'd be in top shape, he'll probably have a much better idea of where he'll be playing, and will likely just go train with them before long.

The only thing which may change that equation are the ACON absentees and whether that (temporarily) pushes Laryea up the pecking order. Granted he is probably not in the best of shape, but we don't know to what degree that is true and maybe they need some insurance in the short term, regardless. Maybe they need someone like Laryea, who is technically free and available to fill out a match day squad for the next few weeks, or at least be such an option. 

The flipside is whether Laryea would even want to go and leave his family for a short term, temporary situation, if that's what it is. And since it's a pretty complicated situation it's no surprise there hasn't yet been a resolution, I suppose. 

[InglewoodJack]

7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

The only thing which may change that equation are the ACON absentees and whether that (temporarily) pushes Laryea up the pecking order. Granted he is probably not in the best of shape, but we don't know to what degree that is true and maybe they need some insurance in the short term, regardless. Maybe they need someone like Laryea, who is technically free and available to fill out a match day squad for the next few weeks, or at least be such an option. 

The flipside is whether Laryea would even want to go and leave his family for a short term, temporary situation, if that's what it is. And since it's a pretty complicated situation it's no surprise there hasn't yet been a resolution, I suppose. 

We don’t know what his fitness level is liked but we do know that to play in the premier league, you need to be training week in week out, and that’s not something he has done, even at the MLS level, for like two months now. An in-form Laryea didn’t have the best showing in the championship, so I don’t know that they’d give him a shot in the premier league. In any case, Forest still have the same Neco Williams that iced Richie out of the squad two years ago, and their other RB is still with the team as well. 
The bolded would be my guess too. I also assume that he won’t stay a “free agent” for long, so I would guess that within a month, his club situation will have been sorted out. 

[Obinna]

19 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

We don’t know what his fitness level is liked but we do know that to play in the premier league, you need to be training week in week out, and that’s not something he has done, even at the MLS level, for like two months now. An in-form Laryea didn’t have the best showing in the championship, so I don’t know that they’d give him a shot in the premier league. In any case, Forest still have the same Neco Williams that iced Richie out of the squad two years ago, and their other RB is still with the team as well. 
The bolded would be my guess too. I also assume that he won’t stay a “free agent” for long, so I would guess that within a month, his club situation will have been sorted out. 

Laryea was very good in the championship, to the point where the Forest fans were pleased with him. I believe some even questioned why he wasn't playing more.

I am not even suggesting he should get a shot on the field, but I am wondering if they'd be forced into naming him to the bench, or wanting to bring him back to be that kind of option...

Sounds like they have two options right now, Neco Williams and another RB, but who is their 3rd option? Is it someone they trust more than a Richie Laryea lacking match sharpness, if not match fitness? Would they want Laryea to come in to be that 3rd option, or to provide cover for that 3rd option? Would Laryea even want to go back in those circumstances?

These are the type scenarios I am wondering about. I am not thinking about Laryea coming straight into the starting 11. 

...........................................................................

Another angle: if he's going to be sold, even for pennies on the dollar as you put it earlier, he's going to need to get match fit, not just for the sake of the player personally, but also for the sake of the club trying to recoup as much as they can for him. If they are offering him to another team, it's more attractive to the buyer to have him actually at the club training, rather than being on the other side of the planet, no?

Edited January 19 by Obinna