Richmond "Richie" Laryea

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

Bradley Wright Phillips is probably the best example of an English lower division player that tore up MLS.

But that may have just been a diamond in the rough

 

I remember Luke Rodgers coming over from league two (4th tier) and having a good season with Red Bulls. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

People in the UK often equate the tempo a game is played at with technical skill level because it's easy to have a high workrate in the pouring rain in Preston in February so everything has to be done at a very high tempo if you want to make it to the highest level there. Then they see an MLS game played in Houston in July...

Edited May 6, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, Red_Dog said:

It was Steve Cook's father mate.

He is apparently stable now thankfully 

Yes, sorry, made that dumb error.

Thanks for correcting and good to hear he's well.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I'll chip in on the Championship and Laryea.

First, some players are actually meant for a higher level because they can't play the style imposed by a league where the technical quality, tactics and demand on skill is lower. You could think of dozens of real top-flight artists who if you'd stick them on a 2nd tier team pretty well anywhere they would suffer.

I don't think Laryea is that profile, in fact I think he should be a good fit in Championship. In principle he's right for the Championship. I have posted reservations here about him, being a bit loose tactically, and having a loose screw at times; but have also said that I see him as a "slash and burn" sort of player, a raider, a marauder of sorts, and a high-strung temperment. Perfect.

About the absolute quality of the Championship: it is distorted by the wage structure, clearly the best of any 2nd tier. As is League One the best 3rd tier if you are interested in salary. By the wage structure, which is the main redeeming feature IMO. 

Many argue it has a better crop of international players because you can pay more. But you are still scouting them to be able to play in Championship conditions, leaving out others. For example, from what I can gather there are two Brazilians and two Argentines in the Championship, and two of those 4 just promoted with Fulham. Four players from Argentina and Brazil. That is damning, you can't even argue their internationals are the top, because otherwise there'd be more. BTW, in Spain there are 15 Argentines in 2nd tier. But if you prefer to watch those Icelandic talents, fine.

Pay also means you have a shitload of overpaid British players, because that is what you get. You can't argue that the British pool is better than the Spanish, German, French or Italian, in fact I think it has historically been worse. Their youth results are worse than the other nations of the top 5 leagues, their NT results as well; there is only a slight recovery, it seems, in the last 5-6 years of the English player pool. Watching the Championship means watching a prestige league where salary structure is the main distorting factor. 

I hear those saying that it is hard to watch, but let's be fair. I'm in Spain and watch a lot of football, but only watch one team in Spanish 2nd tier, Girona. Just because I'd like them to promote again, because they are near Barcelona, also because they have coaching staff from the academy my kid was at. Otherwise, there is little point in watching anything, and I feel the same about Championship, which I occasionally get here through Dazn when their are no EPL games on. I find it boring as fuck and tiresome. But if you like all that running around and ball changing hands constantly and start again, going all in for the next chip-in, deflection or ricochet, you can have it. 

What some are saying about it being competitive internally: wrong. Spanish 2nd tier is the same but moreso. Most seasons there are teams threatened with relegation with 8 games to go with a chance at the promotion playoff. In fact, the spread in Spain 2nd tier is much tighter and I've been looking at this for 20 years at least. That makes it more competitive than the Championship, and if you want to talk about Bundesliga 2, in Germany it is even tighter.  In Championship, there are far more teams already playing for little or nothing with 2 months left to go than in pretty well any league anywhere. 

More about those 24 teams. Too much. In Germany six of those teams would be in 3rd tier. In Spain, 2 of them would be. So if you are a Forest fan, by season's end you have watched 12 matches against teams that in Germany would be in a lower tier.  You have been watching scrub--so don't argue it is more competitive, it's less. 

There is another effect of having so many teams: excess fixtures. Less time to recover, less time to train (especially tactics and strategy, which are grade school), many matches where you are out there just going through the motions. Then the survivors, the ones who can run through it all and can avoid injury in that mess of a system, are the heroes. But should they be?

After all that, just to reiterate. Laryea is perfect for the Championship, he has the pace, skill, intensity, mentality, the edge, and I see no reason he will not succeed.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[SoccMan]

10 hours ago, Red_Dog said:

I watch football the world over, MLS have moved on a lot over the last decade, yet at the same time, players who were very average over here like Johnny Russell, have gone to the MLS and torn it up... 

I am not questioning the quality.  That's essentially the point I am making, but the style.  Championship football is not 'kick and rush'.  

Don't mistake the intensity for the lack of quality. 

Johnny Russel has been ok but tearing up the MLS I don’t think so . Giovinco tore up the MLS, Carlos Vella has torn up the MLS for example. Johnny Russel has been good but has not torn up the MLS. 

[Red_Dog]

16 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

No, I just disagreed with you about one aspect of what you have posted. As stated previously I have no issue whatsoever with the notion that you have better options than Laryea. Just don't buy this whole Championship is so much better than MLS so he wasn't ready angle. For every Johnny Russell (not exactly Zlatan Ibrahimovic in name recognition terms in MLS circles but has done well) there has been an Andy Welsh.

I didn't say it's better, you are missing the point. 

[Red_Dog]

15 hours ago, Ruffian said:

Everybody on this forum watches football the world over. Bojan did great at Barcelona and Roma and then bombed in MLS. Does that mean MLS is better than Serie A or La Liga, of course not.

I am not even arguing that MLS is better than Championship because that kind or argument is absurd. There are too many variables. The elite players are all on top European teams and the giant pool of players that are not there are what the rest of the leagues are made up of. There is not a significant difference in talent between the underpaid Argentinian league players and the overpaid English Championship players.

Everybody thinks their league is the most intense because they have so much intensity themselves when they are watching it. I am bored off my ass watching Championship football unless I have a horse in the race.

Edit: I am not bored of my ass, I'm OK with it.

I'm not saying the Championship is better than the MLS.  I'm not sure Bojan ever did great anywhere, mind.

I'm saying they're different.  Championship football is widely considered as one of, in not the most competitive and intense league around.  It might not be your cup of tea, I imagine it's not a lot of people's, but there's not many leagues like it. 

[Red_Dog]

15 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

People in the UK often equate the tempo a game is played at with technical skill level because it's easy to have a high workrate in the pouring rain in Preston in February so everything has to be done at a very high tempo if you want to make it to the highest level there. Then they see an MLS game played in Houston in July...

This is a very weird generalisation.  

You keep making the same misunderstanding that I am saying tempo and technical skill are the same.  They're not.  If you read my post back to you previously - it looks like you've not been reading them properly - I told you about Bouchalakis, who is an incredibly gifted technical footballer who couldn't survive in the Championship.  Doesn't mean he's not a good player, he now captains Olympiacos and plays for Greece.  But the intensity and importance on structure in such an environment was too much for him. 

Laryea has barely played yet, but in those few moments I have seen some concerns around his shape in his own defensive third, particularly in a hectic moment, where he totally abandoned his shape to close someone down who wasn't posing a threat.  The ball was then played into the space he vacated and the opposition had a free effort on goal.  Going forward he's looking exciting and the type to do well here.  I have not at any point said he won't make it here, but that it's likely the small details like above, why he's having to wait.  We play a particular style of football, regardless of who we play, Peterborough or Liverpool, so it's important the people coming in fit right into it.  

[Red_Dog]

As expected, Laryea starts today.  Will be a tough one today vs such an exciting talent in Lewis-Potter.  But also a good challenge for him.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

2 hours ago, Red_Dog said:

I didn't say it's better, you are missing the point. 

I wasn't actually mainly responding to you in the post you initially responded to FWIW.

1 hour ago, Red_Dog said:

This is a very weird generalisation...

Or maybe it's a perspective you won't hear much in Nottingham because it comes out of the experience of being British born and raised and then being Canadian by choice for the last three decades after escaping a UK turned upside down by Maggie T that very much revolted me and knowing first hand what the mentality of many people from and in the UK is towards domestic pro soccer in Canada. A lot of Brad Bobley comedy skit style small mindedness basically and a misplaced superiority complex that winds up colliding head on with reality when people try to put it into practice in a North American context.

Toronto FC had a fixation with trying to emulate the British game in an MLS context for the first few seasons possibly for marketing related reasons. After the first season which was a bit of a write-off it would go OK for the first few weeks and also the last few weeks but would fall apart through the summer months. To succeed in MLS players need to be able to adapt their game to a greater range of conditions than players in the Championship do sometimes even from week to week given one part of the continent can be experiencing winter conditions while others are basking in relatively high temperatures. I would argue that has actually helped a player like Richie Laryea to be better suited for what he's likely to face in Qatar later this year than a career only in the English Championship would have.

A high tempo English Championship style game is still very much one of the gears a former MLS player like Richie Laryea should be able to readily access though because MLS places a strong and many argue excessive emphasis on athleticism. As explained I am not in the least surprised that he didn't walk straight into your first team. I even tried explaining to people on here why Championship teams have more quality roster depth than MLS ones do after he first arrived because of how the salary cap determines how an MLS roster gets put together. I only responded because I thought the pendulum was starting to swing too far in the other direction when a CMNT player who can handle the Azteca away is involved.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[prairiecanuck]

so Richie finally gets a start and there's no place to watch it..lol

[Joe MacCarthy]

Nottingham Forest 0 Hull City 0 

Spence on for Richie at 76'

[Joe MacCarthy]

Commentator called him Richie Smallwood (lol)

[canuckgbp]

2 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Commentator called him Richie Smallwood (lol)

No, Smallwood was also subbed out at 77 min. The Hull changes were first. 

[canuckgbp]

Forest convert a penalty. So looks like Luton Town instead of Sheffield United for them. 

Edit- And Hull score LOL. So Sheffield it is then lol. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by canuckgbp

[Joe MacCarthy]

Hull blows a clean break at 86'.  NF comes right back and blows a good opportunity around the net.

Penalty for NF in stoppage time

[SoccMan]

Ritchie gets a 7.1 rating on FotMob.

[rydermike]

People are giving Red_Dog flak because he made a comment that Richie made a couple of defensive miscues and responding that it's English bias against Canadians.  I never got that sense from Red Dog in any of his posts that he looked down on NA football and/or Richie because he's Canadian. Yes, I know this is a Canadian forum and we all want our Canadians to do well, but that doesn't mean we have to deny any non-praise comment. It wasn't even a bad one (and if I say so myself was perfectly true). He wasn't saying Richie was a bad player, actually commented how he was very good overall, just one area of improvement needed (which is the same area we've all said).

We all know Richie is a stronger offensive player than a defensive one. He's only been playing full back for 3 years since 2019. He was a midfielder all throughout his youth and early senior career. There's obviously going to be growing pains since he doesn't have 15 years of experience (including youth football where you start learning the position). He's done an amazing job at learning the position, but obviously not perfect at it yet. The comment from Red Dog especially, people have been giving him flak for about getting caught out of position or flying into players.... Guess what? I'm a Toronto FC and Canada fan I thought that exact same thing Red Dog said multiple times. I'd be a bit nervous when Richie was in one-on-one battles with his positioning and getting beat or sometimes when he was very far up, I was worried about him being too far up and getting caught. A lot of times he was able to recover (for both) due to his exceptional speed. He's greatly improved the past couple of years, but there's still some area for improvement (as there is for every player), since he's just not a natural fullback. Saying "but he plays full back against Mexico" over and over. Yes, I wanted him at fullback against Mexico. That didn't stop me from being a bit nervous when a Mexican player took him on one-on-one down the wing. It's the same concern I have now with TFC playing guys like Shaff/JMR/Kosi at fullback. I'm ecstatic that they're getting the opportunity, know they need the opportunity to learn and grow, but that doesn't stop me getting nervous when they're defending (as guys learning the role) because the TFC fan in me wants the three points and wants to avoid mistakes which is at odds with the Canada fan in me which wants them to get the experience and learn from mistakes.

I made a similar comment in this thread where I said Richie's lack of play time might be due to his "unconventional playing style and some defensive positioning" and that being in the promotion hunt they decided to go with the "tried and true" method. Instead of getting berated with comments, I got many likes in agreement because I'm Canadian and not English I guess.

 

Too long/Didn't read version: Yes, Richie is an excellent fullback, especially offensively where he's above average. But yes, he does also makes the occasional error due to being caught out of position due to being offensive-minded or a bad tackle due to not being a natural fullback. No need to critique Red_Dog for saying that because he's English and is only allowed to say positive things about Canada. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by rydermike
change a word to be more moderate

[Strait Red]

Hull scores late, game ends in a 1-1 draw

NFFC vs. Sheffield United in the playoff round

[Joe MacCarthy]

Tied at 1-1

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

21 minutes ago, rydermike said:

...Too long/Didn't read version: Yes, Richie is an excellent fullback, especially offensively where he's above average. But yes, he does also makes the occasional error due to being caught out of position due to being offensive-minded or a bad tackle due to not being a natural fullback. No need to attack Red_Dog for saying that because he's English and is only allowed to say positive things about Canada. 

Bizarre overreaction. Disagreeing with someone over a couple of points is not attacking them.

[maccaliam]

I appreciate Red Dog coming on here to share his thoughts and insight into Richie, NF and anything else football. His perspective is different from his different life and football experiences and that is a great addition to this community. I don’t necessarily agree with intensity being an issue for Laryea, but understand his perspective that the tempo is higher in the championship than in many other leagues. I do agree that positional sense is an area Richie is still growing in. It makes some sense that with those concerns about positional awareness playing time is harder to come by due to the importance of every match. 
Regarding attacking posts, I don’t get the impression anyone was attacking Red Dog’s posts. They just disagreed. I think both sides have handled that well too.
 

 

[rydermike]

Attack probably wasn't the best word. I've edited it. Just saw so much back and forth over what I felt was a non-issue comment. I was mainly responding to the post a page or two ago where Ozzie said Red wouldn't say Richie was out of position/getting beat if he came from League One/was English instead of MLS/Canadian and said it was "patronizing". I'm Canadian/MLS and have thought exactly that about Richie and felt it the response was getting overly defensive at it being a slight at Canadian soccer when it wasn't and got into a Canada vs England battle

Edited May 7, 2022 by rydermike

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

44 minutes ago, rydermike said:

...and got into a Canada vs England battle

Worth noting that in another thread a few weeks back I was accused of disparaging CanPL because I posted about how I thought it was about the same level of play as tier 5 in England rather than tier 3. How rydermike is describing my earler post is also a bit misleading and a case of building a bit of a strawman. I was basically trying to warn the guy about how his post might come across on a CMNT board.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[rydermike]

15 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Worth noting that in another thread a few weeks back I was accused of disparaging CanPL because I posted about how I thought it was about the same level of play as tier 5 in England rather than tier 3.  

Fair enough. I didn't see that post. I feel there's alot of "Canadian blinders" on this forum from many posters. It's why many times I'm hesitant to post anything that's not completely positive on this board. (For example, the comments I see on the Marcelo Flores thread can get to be a bit much sometimes considering he's still just a teen.) I didn't mean my post here as a critique on you as poster, I think it was after many "over the top Canada/anti-anything else" posts on different players/threads by many posters, I finally said something on this thread, it just happened to be on one of your posts

Edited May 7, 2022 by rydermike