Milan Borjan

[youllneverwalkalone]

2 hours ago, Vasi said:

I'm going to preface this by saying that i do not support one side or the other nor do I want to bring politics here.

I don't want to bring politics here either, but you might want to pick a team on this one. This isn't a Jaguars Texans Superbowl or something.

 

[Razcal]

5 hours ago, archer21 said:

So it’s actually quite factually accurate then?

Damnit!

[InglewoodJack]

11 hours ago, GasPed said:

Looks like the lapdogs (Serbia and Hungary) need to be sent to obedience school...

Oh god oh god I am reading about the other times Serbia was sent to obedience school and you guys are not gonna like what I’ve discovered 

[costarg]

14 hours ago, Vasi said:

I'm going to preface this by saying that i do not support one side or the other nor do I want to bring politics here. 

But....lol

The UN is absolutely useless. And passing motions to condemn wars is even more useless. Anyone here who has studied history for a second will know that.

I was was more so referring to economic sanctions which are a real barometer how a country and a ppl feel about another country.  Look at this map. This is what im talking about. 

As for Red Star, Gazprom is their major sponsor. They don't really have a say. 

Not trying to attack you, but i will state the obvious.....  In this case, not picking a side, is picking a side.  It's like turning a blind eye to a crime (rape, murder, child porn, etc...)

You come off sounding exactly like a closet racist saying "Huh, i don't know, this Trump guy kinda makes some valid points".

 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Not trying to attack you, but i will state the obvious.....  In this case, not picking a side, is picking a side.  It's like turning a blind eye to a crime (rape, murder, child porn, etc...)

You come off sounding exactly like a closet racist saying "Huh, i don't know, this Trump guy kinda makes some valid points".

 

Are you picking a side based on reliable information?  

[king1010]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

Are you picking a side based on reliable information?  

yes

[Vasi]

10 hours ago, costarg said:

Not trying to attack you, but i will state the obvious.....  In this case, not picking a side, is picking a side.  It's like turning a blind eye to a crime (rape, murder, child porn, etc...)

You come off sounding exactly like a closet racist saying "Huh, i don't know, this Trump guy kinda makes some valid points".

 

No I do not support Putin. I also do not support the West attempting to get WW3 on. Nor do I support our govt sending hundreds of millions to support a war while some of our own citizens don't have clean drinking water and while over a million Canadian kids are food insecure. 

Its not obvious. Life is not black and white. Equating this to rape is ridiculous. And calling ppl racist in a so called democratic society because they don't conform to your wold view is despotic. But hey you do you boo. I'm out of this convo. 

[Watchmen]

4 hours ago, Vasi said:

Equating this to rape is ridiculous.

Yes, "equating" is definitely the wrong word, since Russian soldiers are literally raping women.

[costarg]

20 hours ago, Obinna said:

Are you picking a side based on reliable information?  

Are you insinuating it's actually the Ukraine that attacked and invaded Russia?  How much are you willing to pin on the media twisting stories exactly?  How do you even trust CANMNT scores if that's the case?

 

[costarg]

11 hours ago, Vasi said:

No I do not support Putin. I also do not support the West attempting to get WW3 on. Nor do I support our govt sending hundreds of millions to support a war while some of our own citizens don't have clean drinking water and while over a million Canadian kids are food insecure. 

Its not obvious. Life is not black and white. Equating this to rape is ridiculous. And calling ppl racist in a so called democratic society because they don't conform to your wold view is despotic. But hey you do you boo. I'm out of this convo. 

I wrote: ignoring this situation is like ignoring rape, murder or child porn, I did not equate the invasion itself to rape.  Geez, dude you really are making me believe you're Trumper by applying his twisting methods in a discussion as well.

[grigorio]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Are you insinuating it's actually the Ukraine that attacked and invaded Russia?  How much are you willing to pin on the media twisting stories exactly?  How do you even trust CANMNT scores if that's the case?

 

Or displaced millions of people including supposedly 2/3 of children (of which there is a family now on my block being supported by the community). Or obliterated a sovereign country’s borders, culture and economy which will take generations to rebuild or restore (if ever). Or committed an unfathomably long and ever-growing list of war crimes including all the well-publicized and *verified* incidents we’ve all seen.  Or being explicit about its goals as the eradication of a sovereign state and its culture tantamount to genocide for imperial ambitions, which should it be allowed to happen puts a long list of countries in the next set of cross-hairs. All while casually and recklessly threatening the world with nuclear annihilation. 
 

This is beyond a “hey man can’t trust everything you read online” or “both sides have valid points” scenario. Hence why *so few* (not so many or most) countries have aligned themselves with Russia on this. 
 

I know this isn’t a forum for political discussion and this is my last point on the matter but jeez come on. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by grigorio

[RS]

2 hours ago, grigorio said:

This is beyond a “hey man can’t trust everything you read online” or “both sides have valid points” scenario. Hence why *so few* (not so many or most) countries have aligned themselves with Russia on this.

There's a certain section of this board that will almost always white knight for the worst people just for discussion's sake. It is what it is.

[Obinna]

5 hours ago, RS said:

There's a certain section of this board that will almost always white knight for the worst people just for discussion's sake. It is what it is.

I would call it a variety in perspective, which is a good thing for any community to have.

The variety in perspective on Russia goes beyond this small soccer board too.

I have observed that some are pinning the global supply chain issues, and inflation, on Russia (for their military occupation) and China (for their zero covid policy).

Others are pinning them on the WEF/NATO bloc and Western Central banks (chiefly the Fed) for antagonizing Russia and distorting the global financial system with excessive money printing.  

To me it is clear there is a bifurcation transpiring right now in our world, with two sides propagating different information and storylines, as they compete for hearts and minds in a hybrid information and financial war. But as with everything, the truth is always somewhere in the middle. That adage has stood the test of time for a good reason. 

That was a long way for me to say that regardless of the topic, I believe the section of this board who push back against the dominant narrative (myself included) share something in common, which is acknowledgement that every story has two sides.

But you can certainly call that white knighting for the worst people in the world, if you wish.

Putin's Western counterparts are also the "worst people in the world" after all, so I'll take your comment as a great reminder not to view him with undue lenience because of that.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Obinna

[InglewoodJack]

Yeah I mean it's fuck russia all day- they're just a (somehow) more brutal and more expansionist imperial power just like the US and other western powers, but being like "not taking a side is like ignoring rape!" is stupid because rape culture, abuse towards women, children, etc. is ultra prevalent in society and is something that advocacy can actually shine light on. It doesn't matter if some random canadian on a forum openly states their support for Ukraine, because the weapons are still gonna flow eastward from here regardless of how we feel about the situation.

Also WRT Serbia, Red Star, Borjan, etc. and Russia, I think it's important to understand why these places are pro russia. Us in the west are used to a very clear world order- the west is good and prosperous and the east is vicious and conniving. Serbia is a country that was heavily bombed by NATO recent enough that most people living there have some sort of memory of it. NATO came within one general defying orders of coming into direct conflict with Russian troops in Kosovo which would've spelled the end of Kosovo, Serbia, and probably most of Europe. This is a country that was directly liberated in WW2 by the red army. When they look for foreign investment, the best deal doesn't come from America, it comes from China. These countries are actively being supported by Russia and China, and the west's best retort is that they need to shut up and fall in line. So to me, Red Star playing Zenit in Russia is politics way bigger than any one player or any one team. Not to mention, it's just one game, and there's a clear difference in talent between the players, but it's why I really don't care about Borjan playing a Russian team, vs. a guy like Ennis who I'd only really consider for a call up once he leaves Russia for good.

[SthMelbRed]

11 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Yeah I mean it's fuck russia all day- they're just a (somehow) more brutal and more expansionist imperial power just like the US and other western powers, but being like "not taking a side is like ignoring rape!" is stupid because rape culture, abuse towards women, children, etc. is ultra prevalent in society and is something that advocacy can actually shine light on. It doesn't matter if some random canadian on a forum openly states their support for Ukraine, because the weapons are still gonna flow eastward from here regardless of how we feel about the situation.

Also WRT Serbia, Red Star, Borjan, etc. and Russia, I think it's important to understand why these places are pro russia. Us in the west are used to a very clear world order- the west is good and prosperous and the east is vicious and conniving. Serbia is a country that was heavily bombed by NATO recent enough that most people living there have some sort of memory of it. NATO came within one general defying orders of coming into direct conflict with Russian troops in Kosovo which would've spelled the end of Kosovo, Serbia, and probably most of Europe. This is a country that was directly liberated in WW2 by the red army. When they look for foreign investment, the best deal doesn't come from America, it comes from China. These countries are actively being supported by Russia and China, and the west's best retort is that they need to shut up and fall in line. So to me, Red Star playing Zenit in Russia is politics way bigger than any one player or any one team. Not to mention, it's just one game, and there's a clear difference in talent between the players, but it's why I really don't care about Borjan playing a Russian team, vs. a guy like Ennis who I'd only really consider for a call up once he leaves Russia for good.

The bolded part is not true. The lands of the former Yugoslavia were largely liberated by Tito's Partizans, not the Red Army.

[vancanman]

I must be missing something, because what I'm seeing discussed here shouldn't even be open for debate.

Do NATO countries and their allies do things they shouldn't?  Yes, of course.  All countries do, since no country is perfect.  However, in this particular war, Ukraine is not invading Russia.  Thanks to cameras, phones, the internet, etc. it's pretty obvious who the aggressor is in Russia's invasion of Ukraine.  Seeing what Putin's doing to his own people is also obvious.  

How should the West react?  I don't usually side with the US in military conflicts, but this is a real catch 22.  If they defend Ukraine directly, that ticks off Putin even more, which could have the worst result possible.  If they do nothing, they let him finish the job, and move on to Lithuania or wherever he might go next.

There is only one side to be on in this particular conflict.

[TOcanadafan]

2 hours ago, vancanman said:

I must be missing something, because what I'm seeing discussed here shouldn't even be open for debate.

Do NATO countries and their allies do things they shouldn't?  Yes, of course.  All countries do, since no country is perfect.  However, in this particular war, Ukraine is not invading Russia.  Thanks to cameras, phones, the internet, etc. it's pretty obvious who the aggressor is in Russia's invasion of Ukraine.  Seeing what Putin's doing to his own people is also obvious.  

How should the West react?  I don't usually side with the US in military conflicts, but this is a real catch 22.  If they defend Ukraine directly, that ticks off Putin even more, which could have the worst result possible.  If they do nothing, they let him finish the job, and move on to Lithuania or wherever he might go next.

There is only one side to be on in this particular conflict.

Yes, on this issue, Russia (more aptly Putin) is the aggressor and should be called out, no debate. Putin is a ruthless, amoral dictator, with little mind for his own soldiers, let alone for all the death and destruction he’s caused to Ukraine, sending under-trained infantry in pre-1990’s Soviet era equipment to get slaughtered in the first wave of attacks.  And what is Putin’s end-game?…as mentioned above, the West needs to at some point stand up and defend itself.  So please don’t use what I write in the next paragraph as some sort of apology or support for Putin.

But unfortunately, the US has such a history of its own transgressions (that a lot of people deservedly never want to forget or let go), that one can always question where their thoughts are at, and so this is what some neutrals, some with a connection to those wronged by the US in the past tend to want to examine or question in more detail.  Could the US have done more to prevent this conflict? Could they be doing more now to influence a ceasefire? The terms of the Minsk agreement were never implemented, in particular the pro-Russian regions were never given the autonomy that was agreed to by both sides.  And now, the US seem to want the war to continue as it weakens Europe’s economy and bolsters their own oil and military sales profits, while simultaneously weakens Russia’s military capacity and economy, and to hell with the rest of the world’s food supply. The US has its own share of elites and bean-counters with no concern for the lives of people, who see this war as an opportunity to widen their power and economic standing from the rest.

[Cadeau]

Of course Russia is the aggressor, but the reasons are way beyond Putin is crazy and evil... I mean the pipelines that export the gas that go through Ukraine (from Soviet era) are a huge part...Wars are usually about the procurement or the transport of resources. I bet as we near winter, many European countries will start to reassess their position.

[dyslexic nam]

So, COVID vaccines - good or bad? 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Me checking to see if there is any actual news about Milan Borjan and seeing all this Russia/Ukraine/NATO talk:

[narduch]

12 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

So, COVID vaccines - good or bad? 

CSA really need to announce those friendlies

[VinceA]

I'm simply glad that he's able to go in and out of Russia safely. There was always that off chance they notice he's Canadian and could decide to detain him and not let him  leave.

[PegCityCam]

On 7/3/2022 at 4:48 PM, Metro said:

Borjan played 90 in a 2-1 loss to Zenit.

...so this is the most recent on Captain Sweatpants?

[narduch]

Champions is 3rd Qualifying Round draw was today.

Red Star will face either Pyunik (Armenia) or F91 Dedelange (Luxembourg).

Matches are August 2/3 and 9.

Edited July 18, 2022 by narduch

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

Champions is 3rd Qualifying Round draw was today.

Red Star will face either Pyunik (Armenia) or F91 Dedelange (Luxembourg).

Matches are August 2/3 and 9.

Weird they have them playing at that level in a qualifying round. Very easy either way for them. Maybe Red Star should be starting later?