Keegan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Its not just about talent. Its our philosophy that needs to change. Over the last 20 years every coach that has coached the Nats has preached defense first, even when we had some decent players at attack. We're trying to move forward anf attack, even if it means using guys that are technically deficient. We have to keep playing the ball on the ground and trying to create, eventually that will slowly be in the Canada futbol player DNA of wanting to attack, move forward and score, rather than sit back, etc. The canadian futbol player has already the defense aspect of the game because of hockey that preaches defense wina champiomships. We have to develop flair or try to emulate it. We're teaching the academy kids of today of what not to do, rathe than saying, remember that goal Tiebert score against 2 defenders, etc. When have we had decent players in attack? Even our best all-time attackers don't stack up with generations of our rivals who make World Cups, so why would any coach preach an attacking style? The best attacking side I ever saw was Canada in 2007/2008.. we tried to play somewhat offensive during that period and the goals still weren't there but we sure as hell were conceding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolvid Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 We're basically like a poor mans version of US soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolbertos Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 When have we had decent players in attack? Even our best all-time attackers don't stack up with generations of our rivals who make World Cups, so why would any coach preach an attacking style? The best attacking side I ever saw was Canada in 2007/2008.. we tried to play somewhat offensive during that period and the goals still weren't there but we sure as hell were conceding. Playing attacking soccer is not q quick fix and takes a generation or two to implement. Now is the best time to preach that philosphy, because we are rock bottom in CONCACAF. What has defense given us in 100 years of Canadian aoccer history?? One world cup appearance and 1 Gold Cup. With a country as big, top 8 GDP, etc, we actually have a stock bare troohy case. I would've imagined in the 100 yeara of CONCACAF in the early 50-60's when Mexico wasn't a strong we'd have made some World Cup appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Playing attacking soccer is not q quick fix and takes a generation or two to implement. Now is the best time to preach that philosphy, because we are rock bottom in CONCACAF. What has defense given us in 100 years of Canadian aoccer history?? One world cup appearance and 1 Gold Cup. With a country as big, top 8 GDP, etc, we actually have a stock bare troohy case. I would've imagined in the 100 yeara of CONCACAF in the early 50-60's when Mexico wasn't a strong we'd have made some World Cup appearances. Playing attacking soccer and getting bounced at the senior level isn't the solution. We've seen our youth teams play attacking styles and as long as they are trying at a young age that's fine to change the culture around. We don't need to start teaching players attacking soccer at the senior level, it's a results business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Unless you're Holger Osieck, which mastered the bunkering and got great results, doesn't work with our current nats. Not to be too cynical but Holger was a better master at winning a coin toss and drawing the right lot, the two ways in which we proceeded from the group stages in 2000 and 2002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolvid Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Playing attacking soccer and getting bounced at the senior level isn't the solution. We've seen our youth teams play attacking styles and as long as they are trying at a young age that's fine to change the culture around. We don't need to start teaching players attacking soccer at the senior level, it's a results business. And unfortunately we aren't getting good results playing defensively, meanwhile other nations are getting better at playing attacking/balance footy. Concacaf as a whole is getting better and they sure as hell aren't waiting for canada to pick it up. We need to learn how to play balance soccer or at they very least play the counter attacking aspect better in defensive footy. We will get no where play the way we are right now, any decade soon at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 And unfortunately we aren't getting good results playing defensively, meanwhile other nations are getting better at playing attacking/balance footy. Concacaf as a whole is getting better and they sure as hell aren't waiting for canada to pick it up. We are playing balanced footy. Just because we can't score doesn't mean it's defensive. It's rigid defensively but when we get the ball we try to make things happen, we just can't. We aren't throwing 10 men behind the ball... if we were we would have drawn Jamaica 0-0. You can't really say it's defensive when we've started 3 forwards in 2 matches. I think our shape and tactics are spot on and if we buried a couple goals that should have been we wouldn't be having this conversation. If we tried to attack I guarantee we would have conceded more goals and there is no way we would score still. IMO if we played attacking we would be torn apart. We are so predictable when we attack and if the opponent decided to sit back they could pick us off, counter and kill us on every attack. With our balanced "defensive" approach at least we can create odd man situation off quick breaks and have a chance to score without creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 There's something that's still not clear to me. Everybody knows now that Floro is focussed a defensive system. I'm fine with that. The mystery to me is what criteria Floro used to determine, against ES, that Bekker is more suited in his defensive system than Teibert. Not only Teibert has been playing regularly, the same can't be said about Bekker, but also Teibert has been playing as a DMF in VW. I don't remember Bekker playing a defensive role in TFC midfield and I don't know what role he played in Dallas since I don't watch Dallas games. I believe that Floro's approach is the correct one, but he should manage to implement a defensive system while to keep some balance between defense and attack, and I think Teibert would be very useful in that manner. Putting 3 DMF that can't create some play and give some chances to the forwards will never give that balance I'd like to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Bekker over Teibert is also puzzling to me, I'm going to list all the things positive about Bekker that he may see above Teibert: - Good with both feet (Teibert not so much) - Direct free kick ability (Teibert is great on FKs but is more of a provider than shot) - Height After that, I'm not so sure. Teibert seems to hold his position well with Vancouver when I've seen him centrally and I'd rate him over Bekker defensively as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolvid Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 We are playing balanced footy. Just because we can't score doesn't mean it's defensive. It's rigid defensively but when we get the ball we try to make things happen, we just can't. We aren't throwing 10 men behind the ball... if we were we would have drawn Jamaica 0-0. You can't really say it's defensive when we've started 3 forwards in 2 matches. I think our shape and tactics are spot on and if we buried a couple goals that should have been we wouldn't be having this conversation. If we tried to attack I guarantee we would have conceded more goals and there is no way we would score still. IMO if we played attacking we would be torn apart. We are so predictable when we attack and if the opponent decided to sit back they could pick us off, counter and kill us on every attack. With our balanced "defensive" approach at least we can create odd man situation off quick breaks and have a chance to score without creativity. There's no way we aren't playing defensive footy, guatemala BUNKERED with 2 strikers up top but still bunkered all night long. As long as they are tracking back defensively and on their own side of the field you can still bunker/play defensive. And no we are playing defensive over balanced footy and the jamaica game made it blatantly clear. Especially when we conceded the goal and had all 9 behind the ball with 1 striker up top but on our own side of the field. The only game we arguably played balanced was vs ES and the opposition did it better. Jamaica hogging the possession and bombarding us should have scored at least 3 more. We need to learn to play balance footy not attacking. Hold the ball and freeze the other team instead of giving them all the touches and getting form throughout the entire game. The US on their good day is a perfect example of balance to defensive-COUNTER soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaub Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think the Jamaica game is a poor example because it seemed like everyone was totally gassed after 55 minutes. That wasn't bunkering as much as it was survival. The Brazil game last night is how we want to play - creative in the counterattack. I don't see Floro prohibiting that creativity in any way, we just are unable to produce. It baffles me that anyone would think we would be able to dictate the game to a team of even El Salvador's or Jamaica's level. I've seen us do that exactly once against a non-minnow CONCACAF team in the past 15 years (that '07 QF against Guatemala). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Also, I believe part of the loss against Jamaica can be attributed to a fitness issue, the heat. We looked better the first 15 minutes of each half, then Jamaica dominated the second portion of each half. The players must be ready to play under any kind of condition, but I get the feeling that every time we play in a zone warmer than Canada, it's always a big factor against the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolvid Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think the Jamaica game is a poor example because it seemed like everyone was totally gassed after 55 minutes. That wasn't bunkering as much as it was survival. The Brazil game last night is how we want to play - creative in the counterattack. I don't see Floro prohibiting that creativity in any way, we just are unable to produce. It baffles me that anyone would think we would be able to dictate the game to a team of even El Salvador's or Jamaica's level. I've seen us do that exactly once against a non-minnow CONCACAF team in the past 15 years (that '07 QF against Guatemala). I meant we played defensive after 25 minutes or so in the reggae boyz game not a full on bunker like mexico vs guatemala. And yeah that brazil game, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I don't remember Bekker playing a defensive role in TFC midfield and I don't know what role he played in Dallas since I don't watch Dallas games. At the start of last season he played behind Bradley, notably (and effectively, I might add) in the road victory over Columbus. At the end of last season, the two players' roles were reversed. I think Dallas have tried him in a couple of roles (holding mid beside Ulloa, more advanced mid as a sub). As for the style Floro's playing, he basically confirmed in his most recent interview what I have always believed. It's balanced football, but balanced in the same way the Greeks played under Rehhagel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killgod Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Heyo anyone got a spare ticket? Need one more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_M Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Saying or implying that we don't have the quality to play attacking soccer against teams like Jamaica and El Salvador is completely wrong and unacceptable if it's coming from our coach. It shows a lack of understanding of Concacaf and our position in it. We need a coach who will play to win against these teams and fight to be in the top 6 in Concacaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanneMac Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 And just like Sport Shaman said, I'm bringing all the province/territory flags with me from the WWC matches in Edmonton. Start calling dibs I call dibs on one! See you at Shoeless?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanneMac Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 And just like Sport Shaman said, I'm bringing all the province/territory flags with me from the WWC matches in Edmonton. Start calling dibs I call dibs on one! See you at Shoeless?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcalibre Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Praying for a 1-0 win, but if we do go out without a goal, Floro will still keep his job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviola7 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I know I left this late (too much stuff going on) - will there be any tickets for sale at the pre-game party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sébastien Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Not being from Toronto, the Shoeless Joe's everyone talks about is the one on King Street, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 9PM in toronto. Walking to my office for a quick evening shift.. I see CR coming off the bus checking in to the Hyatt king west, same building as the Score building. Chrip them a bit....lets not forget how Panama treat our squad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviola7 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Not being from Toronto, the Shoeless Joe's everyone talks about is the one on King Street, right? Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sose Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 9PM in toronto. Walking to my office for a quick evening shift.. I see CR coming off the bus checking in to the Hyatt king west, same building as the Score building. Chrip them a bit....lets not forget how Panama treat our squad! set off some fireworks in front of their hotel rooms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstackho Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Not being from Toronto, the Shoeless Joe's everyone talks about is the one on King Street, right? There are two Shoeless Joes on King St. The one near the stadium is 1189 King St W. https://goo.gl/maps/wAu6Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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