Scott Arfield

[Bigandy]

1 minute ago, king1010 said:

source that he was never going to join our squad midway through wcq? 

Because I just provided Kristian Jack as a source that he was open minded as of May 2021 which was well after the second round of WCQ

Your source of KJ is nonsense. 

Yes, arfield was open minded to going to a world cup and when KJ asked arfield, he responded with a vague "keep all options open" statement. 

The point is that CMNT was never ever ever going to call him up midway. Arfield could be open minded or even on his knees and beg for a spot but thats irrelevant because he was never ever ever going to get called up. 

using your logic, I also turned down the WC because I am open minded about going to WCQ. 

The point is that Herdman and the players have made tweets that are negative to arfield and herdman refused to call him up during any WCQ. His talent could have easily been used and he warranted a call up based on talent alone. However, we built a squad, not individually talented players. Thats why he was dropped because he doesnt fit in. 

Lets take your argument even further. How does arfield being open minded to joining WCQ but not being called up by herdman mean that arfield rejected the opportunity to be part of the WCQ? Perhaps you will (incorrectly) argue that he turned down a call up? We have heard about farsi rejecting a provisional list call up. Surely arfields rejection, which would be one of the most controversial rejections in CMNT history, would have some media reporting on it. Can you please provide a source to show that arfield rejected the national team in jan 2022? Just one news report in JAN 2022 stating this is the case? 

[Bigandy]

8 minutes ago, king1010 said:

source that he was never going to join our squad midway through wcq? 

This is literally the worst argument you can make. 

Your claim is that he rejected us but youre putting the burden of evidence on me to prove that. Youre suggesting there should be a source when a player doesnt get called up. The source is literally the roster announcement where he is not included. Why would there be another source, specifically for arfield not being chosen? Theres no source about david edgar or marcus haber either. Does that mean that those guys turned down a call up as well? 

Think about what youre asking for vs what your claim is. Total nonsense

[Bigandy]

18 minutes ago, king1010 said:

source? 

also Arfield wasn't "every player". He was the captain. If he was present during WCQ he would've been at the WorldCup. 

With your post comment edits, I am having to respond in weird orders. 

You need to reread what I said. Youre implying that I am arguing that theres no guarantee that arfield makes the WC squad if hes present during WCQ. Thats not my argument at all. Obviously arfield would have 100% gone to the world cup if he was part of the WCQ squads. 

Just like its obvious he was never ever ever going to make our WC squad when he was not included in any WCQ squads. 

you may want to reread my post because this response is incredibly out of context. 

[king1010]

and exhale 

[Bigandy]

3 minutes ago, king1010 said:

and exhale 

Ah, I see what you did here. 

Instead of acknowledging that what you said was wrong, youre deflecting and trolling. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Airfield wrote himself out of the squad, any attempt to argue otherwise is a distortion of the facts. If he'd been available, on his own accord, he would have been included. He didn't.

[king1010]

11 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Airfield wrote himself out of the squad, any attempt to argue otherwise is a distortion of the facts. If he'd been available, on his own accord, he would have been included. He didn't.

Completely agree with this. Follows what Herdman was saying before WCQ as well. 

 

I think there’s definitely some issues he’s got behind the scenes in terms of his commitments and from my side, I’ll always respect him. But I think when the big games come, I think Scott will be available."

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article/herdman-confident-arfield-will-available-marquee-canada-games/

Edited May 23, 2023 by king1010

[Bigandy]

55 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Airfield wrote himself out of the squad, any attempt to argue otherwise is a distortion of the facts. If he'd been available, on his own accord, he would have been included. He didn't.

I dont think anyone is arguing that arfield initially pulled himself out of the squad. He was always a fair weather player. He basically only played games for canada in the USA and canada. He went to 1 away game and then he realized what concacaf is like and never went again. 

Once he pulled himself out, the CMNT moved on without him. Arfield arguably made himself available for WC selection and he wasnt selected. Herdman was never ever going to pick a player who abandoned the team when things get tough and then disrepsect a guy like fraser who put the work in. 

[dyslexic nam]

8 hours ago, king1010 said:

Still find it crazy he passed up on a world cup just to leave on a free transfer. He even had the opportunity to recommit in Jan 2022. The line was always he wanted to secure his club contract, which he did a few years ago. 

Guess he just wasn't interested in playing in a World Cup. 

This will forever be a puzzling decision to me.  I don’t doubt that he could have taken steps to come back into the fold during WCQ.  Even a fair way through the process when we were already looking like strong contenders to make the big show, I think he could have been a part of the squad and made a solid contribution.  

[king1010]

7 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

This will forever be a puzzling decision to me.  I don’t doubt that he could have taken steps to come back into the fold during WCQ.  Even a fair way through the process when we were already looking like strong contenders to make the big show, I think he could have been a part of the squad and made a solid contribution.  

Absolutely, especially with the roster expanded to 26 spots. 

[TGAA_Star]

I still don't even know why Scott Arfield is being talked about...like he hasn't played for Canada since 2019 or 2020...either way that's like what 3 or 4 years and he's already 34 years old. Yeah he's playing for Rangers but okay and? The point being we don't even need him on our national team anymore. He's irrelevant especially when we have more than enough players who can make up for him not being in our squad. Like just let it rest like damn!!!

[GasPed]

4 minutes ago, TGAA_Star said:

I still don't even know why Scott Arfield is being talked about...like he hasn't played for Canada since 2019 or 2020...either way that's like what 3 or 4 years and he's already 34 years old. Yeah he's playing for Rangers but okay and? The point being we don't even need him on our national team anymore. He's irrelevant especially when we have more than enough players who can make up for him not being in our squad. Like just let it rest like damn!!!

You new here?  😉

[RJB]

Depending where he ends up, perhaps he's an option for 26?

[king1010]

1 hour ago, TGAA_Star said:

I still don't even know why Scott Arfield is being talked about...like he hasn't played for Canada since 2019 or 2020...either way that's like what 3 or 4 years and he's already 34 years old. Yeah he's playing for Rangers but okay and? The point being we don't even need him on our national team anymore. He's irrelevant especially when we have more than enough players who can make up for him not being in our squad. Like just let it rest like damn!!!

He’s being talked about because it was just announced he is leaving Rangers. 
 

just like any other retired(from canmnt) player would have his thread see an uptick in discussion if they left their club. Nothing unusual about it. 
 

i don't think anyone here is claiming we need him on our national team going forward. not sure how that made it into your post. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by king1010

[Bison44]

5 hours ago, Bigandy said:

 Herdman was never ever going to pick a player who abandoned the team when things get tough 

Wow, thats an interesting way of looking back on things.

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Wow, thats an interesting way of looking back on things.

That's exactly how I understand Herdman's take too. Airfield cut out and never did enough to get back in. He basically abdicated. Being captain that doesn't work. He made it easy for Herdman.

[nolando]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/live/football/65691532

[Bigandy]

10 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Wow, thats an interesting way of looking back on things.

Isnt that exactly what happened. 

What would be the reasons herdman would call up arfield again. 
1. Its a World cup - scotty doesnt need to travel to concacaf which he refuses to do. Its a short tournament so scotty can still focus on his club.
2. We have a midfield crisis- staq, spoony, oso, hutch injured. Fraser, piette, MAK, Kone are either out of form or not trusted, wrong skill set.
3. He plays in a position of need. Oso is really our only comparable player. With Arfield fully integrated in the team, we may have played a 3-5-2. 

Are there any other reasons that make a stronger case for calling arfield up? I cant think of any. Yet, we still didnt call him up. 

The main counter point would be that we did call him up and he refused. However, if we had continually called him up during WCQ or even just for the WC, and he declined, we would 100% have found out. The arfeild saga is one of the most debated topics of all time for canada (certainly for this cycle). Surely we would have known. 

Think of guys like hudson-odio, volpato, scholes, carrick, rabiot, benzema. They all refused call ups (benzema is obv a bigger example) and we all found out about it. A WC refusal would be the juciest story of our WC squad. 

[Bigandy]

15 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

This will forever be a puzzling decision to me.  I don’t doubt that he could have taken steps to come back into the fold during WCQ.  Even a fair way through the process when we were already looking like strong contenders to make the big show, I think he could have been a part of the squad and made a solid contribution.  

I 100% agree - the problem is that is a big "IF".  

Playing international soccer is more than just talent. You have to fit the squad. Theres so many different elements to a call up that talent alone is often not enough, unless it is world class talent. 

Arfield was talented enough to make our squad and likely start, but he doesnt have the mentality to fight it out in central america. He doesnt have the mentality to commit to the team at the expense of himself like all our other stars. 

Who is to say that including arfield makes the team better on the field (on paper yes). He wasnt included in 2 years of tactical training, video footage etc. He hasnt built chemistry on the field with the majority of these guys. Who's to say we dont create a divide. Fraser gets left at home for arfield but henry is willing to sacrifice his spot for someone else - how is that fair? (obv we can debate if its fair but what if some of the players dont like that decision). What about the guy arfield replaces in the starting line up? 

Lets also say that herdman was sticking to a 2 man midfield. arfield wouldnt suit a 2 man midfield and isnt going to take a starting spot over david, larin, buchanan etc. Hoilett would be the main guy to lose out... based on his twitter, he wouldnt take this well. If Herdman was going to risk bringing arfield, he would have to start. It wouldnt be worth the risk to the harmony of the squad to have him just sit on the bench. 

If this was fifa 22 then you call up arfield. However, unless arfield did some serious mending of bridges, there was not going to be a call up. 

[InglewoodJack]

I think an aspect of this is that Arfield overplayed his hand. Loturi has twice the starts and like 500 more minutes than him in Scotland. We would’ve never considered Loturi for the World Cup. Not to say Arfield is too low quality for us, but that’s not a level of form that you bend over backwards for. At least Liam Fraser is buddies with some of our guys- if Arfield isn’t the most popular guy in the dressing room, if he’s not the most in form he’s ever been, then at this point we’re debating a guy who would’ve had a negligible effect on the World Cup.

 

sure, the argument that Eustaquio wasn’t fit, Atiba is old, Kone is too untested, etc and maybe we need midfield reinforcements, but if your best midfielders are injured or inexperienced, one guy, unless he’s one of the best midfielders in the world, isn’t going to un-doom our team. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[Bigandy]

38 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I think an aspect of this is that Arfield overplayed his hand. Loturi has twice the starts and like 500 more minutes than him in Scotland. We would’ve never considered Loturi for the World Cup. Not to say Arfield is too low quality for us, but that’s not a level of form that you bend over backwards for. At least Liam Fraser is buddies with some of our guys- if Arfield isn’t the most popular guy in the dressing room, if he’s not the most in form he’s ever been, then at this point we’re debating a guy who would’ve had a negligible effect on the World Cup.

 

sure, the argument that Eustaquio wasn’t fit, Atiba is old, Kone is too untested, etc and maybe we need midfield reinforcements, but if your best midfielders are injured or inexperienced, one guy, unless he’s one of the best midfielders in the world, isn’t going to un-doom our team. 

Great points - This furthers that herdman was never going to turn his back on the squad that got us to the WC/disrupt our squad, for a player who may not be a top 11 player on our squad. 

[InglewoodJack]

5 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Great points - This furthers that herdman was never going to turn his back on the squad that got us to the WC/disrupt our squad, for a player who may not be a top 11 player on our squad. 

I don’t know if it factored into it, but there’s also the question of professionalism and protecting Canada‘s image. Benzema, one of the best players in the world playing for one of the best countries in the world wasn’t able to just walk back into France’s team and yet the expectation is that Canada should give Arfield more privileges than him. You bend over backwards for Davies or David, not your 13th best player.

[Bison44]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Isnt that exactly what happened. 

I thought the  argument was he didnt want to come to play "minnows" and if he wasnt commited fully then Herdman didnt want him or he didnt deserve to be there (no longer a brother).  Not that he abandoned it when things were tough, ie  not sure if we really needed him coming off an injury in mar 2021 against Bermuda and Cayman islands.  

[Bigandy]

3 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I thought the  argument was he didnt want to come to play "minnows" and if he wasnt commited fully then Herdman didnt want him or he didnt deserve to be there (no longer a brother).  Not that he abandoned it when things were tough, ie  not sure if we really needed him coming off an injury in mar 2021 against Bermuda and Cayman islands.  

I never made the argument that he didnt want to play the minnows (although that is likely true). I think the better argument is that he doesnt want to play in central america. He did one game, realized what it was like and then never again. 

However, I think youre point is that he abandoned us vs the minnows (easy) and not that he abandoned us during the octo (hard).  

If thats what you mean, then i should clarify what i meant by tough (perhaps thats the wrong word choice). Tough in this context is travelling during covid, the brutal conditions and travel schedule of south america, competing for a club contract during qualifying, dealing with injuries, a big time commitment etc. Basically he abandoned us during WCQ (tough) so he shouldnt walk into our WC squad (easy -even though the matches are waaaay tougher).

Alot of those reasons are justifiable. However, losing your spot as a result of your choices is also justifiable. 

 

[The Real Marc]

The guy made a calculation that we were unlikely to spurn him later on, and in the off chance we did it would be worth it in terms of his family life and career.

He was wrong on count one and only he can decide whether he was right on counts two and three.