Scott Arfield

[dyslexic nam]

16 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Are these "No" takes just emotional? Because if I am going by emotion I can easily say hell naw like many of you, but if I am thinking about the team and putting emotion aside, I can reluctantly say: sure bring him in, provided it is not at the expense of a younger player and provided he is playing well.

In other words, if he can help the team and it doesn't negatively impact the development of Choniere and Ahmed, players who need to be integrated. Why not? Because he screwed us over? Hell, if he didn't step aside maybe Kone isn't as far along in his NT career. 

And by the way, if they are simply emotional takes its all good too, because I get it. Not trying to pick fights or make it seem like I am a an Arfield truther. I am just trying to understand how much of the objections are emotional vs tactics/development/etc.

 

11 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I see Copa 2024 being more of his swan song. I wouldn't be so much rewarding him as I'd like to see the team perform better at the next major event, and I think he could help with that from a depth perspective. But that's all I'm thinking of him now is depth, as I think the GC showed us we don't have as much of that as we'd like. Still plenty of opportunities for younger players though.

For me it is definitely an emotional response.   But it is also one that I am comfortable with.  At a time of great need, he opted out.  It wasn’t an injury - he just didn’t want to do the dirty work of qualification.  And then didn’t try to be part of our team for the big tests in Qatar.  

Maybe he would be part of our bench depth at Copa and maybe not.  But I am fine to move on at this point.  At some point I think we can take a bit of a principled stand on behalf of the people that made the commitments for the future of this team.  And given that I don’t believe he is a substantial upgrade over the alternatives at this point, I am willing to take a young guy with potential (even if they are marginally less skilled) and leave the door closed for Scotty.  I totally understand the other side and people who would welcome him back, but it ain’t me.  

[MauditYvon]

would have love him at WC2022 and would have take him instead of spoony or Fraser at this GC, but now it's too late. I want to see guys like Loturi, Ahmed or Choinière instead.

[eramosat]

the more time any forum poster wastes considering Arfield anything wrt Canada's future...whether it's COPA2024 or WC2026, or anything in between...well, I feel it's just a pointless exercise. so yes, I am ready to back-door this thread heavily

 

[Shway]

It just doesn't make sense @Obinna. You're acting as if he joined a superior league, and has changed his tuned as a result.

This guy is changing his tune solely due to convenience.

If he comes to MLS and starts over performing, then let's have the conversation. But I doubt that, and because he won't - I'm comfortable with giving the experience to guys like Bombito, Ahmed, or even some younger guys. If we need veteran presence, then I'm more inclined to continue to use his loyal Scottish brother in David Wotherspoon.

This isn't the facking 28yo Arfield...

Edited July 13, 2023 by Shway

[youllneverwalkalone]

I think spoony is cooked

[VinceA]

20 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Make of it what you will.

 

He can go fly a kite lol.

Edited July 13, 2023 by VinceA

[Watchmen]

15 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

 

For me it is definitely an emotional response.   But it is also one that I am comfortable with.  At a time of great need, he opted out.  It wasn’t an injury - he just didn’t want to do the dirty work of qualification.  And then didn’t try to be part of our team for the big tests in Qatar.  

See, for me it would have been an emotional response if he HAD gone to Qatar. That so many players had contribute to finally hauling Canada back to the WC, and then one of them would have missed because he was jumping back on at the finish line. F*** that. Where as now, I'm more indifferent if he rejoins. There's positives and negatives to it and I'll let the coaching staff decide and I'd be fine either way.

[youllneverwalkalone]

^Agreed

[Ottawafan]

Herdman had to put the team ahead of all things and invite Arfield.  As we saw he was needed.  We had almost no options in the CM outside of the starters who were playing hurt.

In the end it wasn't going to be a difference in W or L's, but he would have made an impact.  

Water under the bridge at this point.

[frmr]

19 hours ago, Obinna said:

Are these "No" takes just emotional? Because if I am going by emotion I can easily say hell naw like many of you, but if I am thinking about the team and putting emotion aside, I can reluctantly say: sure bring him in, provided it is not at the expense of a younger player and provided he is playing well.

In other words, if he can help the team and it doesn't negatively impact the development of Choniere and Ahmed, players who need to be integrated. Why not? Because he screwed us over? Hell, if he didn't step aside maybe Kone isn't as far along in his NT career. 

And by the way, if they are simply emotional takes its all good too, because I get it. Not trying to pick fights or make it seem like I am a an Arfield truther. I am just trying to understand how much of the objections are emotional vs tactics/development/etc.

Probably emotional yes. I think he is probably still good enough for a fringe player with our A squad. Would have absolutely no issue with him on our B squad for Gold Cups, etc.

[Metro]

3 hours ago, Watchmen said:

See, for me it would have been an emotional response if he HAD gone to Qatar. That so many players had contribute to finally hauling Canada back to the WC, and then one of them would have missed because he was jumping back on at the finish line. F*** that. Where as now, I'm more indifferent if he rejoins. There's positives and negatives to it and I'll let the coaching staff decide and I'd be fine either way.

I agree with this.  IMHO the page has turned now that the World Cup (and Nations League) journey is over.  If he wants to help the Nats with the Copa America qualies this winter, sure, why not.

[InglewoodJack]

20 hours ago, Obinna said:

Are these "No" takes just emotional? Because if I am going by emotion I can easily say hell naw like many of you, but if I am thinking about the team and putting emotion aside, I can reluctantly say: sure bring him in, provided it is not at the expense of a younger player and provided he is playing well.

In other words, if he can help the team and it doesn't negatively impact the development of Choniere and Ahmed, players who need to be integrated. Why not? Because he screwed us over? Hell, if he didn't step aside maybe Kone isn't as far along in his NT career. 

And by the way, if they are simply emotional takes its all good too, because I get it. Not trying to pick fights or make it seem like I am a an Arfield truther. I am just trying to understand how much of the objections are emotional vs tactics/development/etc.

Quality wise, is there still an argument that he’s better than Choiniere? Airfield’s last season as a full time starter was before COVID. Does he have game breaking ability that Ahmed has? Before last night’s start in Charlotte, he started two games in 2023 and went 90 once. 
 

my line with Arfield is that I’ll be a hater until he decides to come back to us, but at this point, is he actually that difference maker we thought he was last year or the year before?  The only guy I would choose SA over would be Liam Fraser, and there are other players I’d chose over Fraser. I can be convinced that Arfield would help us, but I’m of the mind that any help would be marginal, not because of behind the scenes stuff, just because I don’t know if we need a guy who will be a month out from his 35th birthday the next time we call a team to camp.

[Corazon]

7 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Quality wise, is there still an argument that he’s better than Choiniere? Airfield’s last season as a full time starter was before COVID. Does he have game breaking ability that Ahmed has? Before last night’s start in Charlotte, he started two games in 2023 and went 90 once. 
 

my line with Arfield is that I’ll be a hater until he decides to come back to us, but at this point, is he actually that difference maker we thought he was last year or the year before?  The only guy I would choose SA over would be Liam Fraser, and there are other players I’d chose over Fraser. I can be convinced that Arfield would help us, but I’m of the mind that any help would be marginal, not because of behind the scenes stuff, just because I don’t know if we need a guy who will be a month out from his 35th birthday the next time we call a team to camp.

This is also my thought as well.  Although I am not a hater of Arfield at all, I'd welcome him back so long as the coaching staff and team have no issues with it.  If he can make a difference going forward with our program and he is good enough for our 23 man roster, then by all means bring him in.  I believe the best players available should be called with consideration for keeping an eye to the future.  I'm just skeptical, he currently is in our "A" squad midfield at this point.

Let's say, he is playing similar level to Osorio, I'm picking Osorio for his commitment to our program.  If he's similar level to Choiniere, I'd be picking Choiniere, with a plan for the future.  If he starts playing like Hany Mukhtar, I'd happily accept him back.

[InglewoodJack]

7 minutes ago, Corazon said:

This is also my thought as well.  Although I am not a hater of Arfield at all, I'd welcome him back so long as the coaching staff and team have no issues with it.  If he can make a difference going forward with our program and he is good enough for our 23 man roster, then by all means bring him in.  I believe the best players available should be called with consideration for keeping an eye to the future.  I'm just skeptical, he currently is in our "A" squad midfield at this point.

Let's say, he is playing similar level to Osorio, I'm picking Osorio for his commitment to our program.  If he's similar level to Choiniere, I'd be picking Choiniere, with a plan for the future.  If he starts playing like Hany Mukhtar, I'd happily accept him back.

Yup, this is exactly where I’m at. Not even a brotherhood thing, just that if he’s equal to someone on our roster, we should go with the guy who already plays for us to keep that chemistry or to develop the guy. If he starts playing out of his mind, just like any other of our players, he should get a look.

But even now, he knew he was going to Charlotte for a while now, he was already in North America, I’m sure Herdman was at least vaguely aware of this and of Arfield’s vague interest in playing for us again- if he was so serious about wanting to play for us again, why wasn’t he at the gold cup?

[Corazon]

1 minute ago, InglewoodJack said:

Yup, this is exactly where I’m at. Not even a brotherhood thing, just that if he’s equal to someone on our roster, we should go with the guy who already plays for us to keep that chemistry or to develop the guy. If he starts playing out of his mind, just like any other of our players, he should get a look.

But even now, he knew he was going to Charlotte for a while now, he was already in North America, I’m sure Herdman was at least vaguely aware of this and of Arfield’s vague interest in playing for us again- if he was so serious about wanting to play for us again, why wasn’t he at the gold cup?

Not saying he couldn't have helped us at this Gold Cup but he also didn't earn it based on his 2nd half performances with Rangers.  Only one start for Rangers since January 1st and a total of 243 minutes in about 20 games in 2023.  That's less than Bombito has in his 7 games with Colorado and he was injured for 2 months to start this season.

[InglewoodJack]

16 minutes ago, Corazon said:

Not saying he couldn't have helped us at this Gold Cup but he also didn't earn it based on his 2nd half performances with Rangers.  Only one start for Rangers since January 1st and a total of 243 minutes in about 20 games in 2023.  That's less than Bombito has in his 7 games with Colorado and he was injured for 2 months to start this season.

Absolutely agree. I would’ve taken him over Fraser though. Not that it necessarily works that way.

[DeRo_Is_King]

For a World Cup, you take your best. If it's close between two players, I can understand paying more attention to intangibles and peripheral qualities (i.e. how he affects morale, off-field presence, etc.). But there was a clear difference in quality between Arfield and Fraser -- yet Fraser was selected. 

But now, I'm pretty indifferent to whether Arfield comes back. Not closing the door completely, but he's too old at this point and he's playing at a lower level. I agree with others that Choiniere would bring the same level of quality and that he is still young enough to develop. If it came down to Choiniere or Arfield, I'd take Choiniere. 

[Fresh Prince of MTL]

2 hours ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

For a World Cup, you take your best. If it's close between two players, I can understand paying more attention to intangibles and peripheral qualities (i.e. how he affects morale, off-field presence, etc.). But there was a clear difference in quality between Arfield and Fraser -- yet Fraser was selected. 

But now, I'm pretty indifferent to whether Arfield comes back. Not closing the door completely, but he's too old at this point and he's playing at a lower level. I agree with others that Choiniere would bring the same level of quality and that he is still young enough to develop. If it came down to Choiniere or Arfield, I'd take Choiniere. 

I don't agree with this. You take the total team that will help you win, not the best individual players. You see this often with Team Canada hockey in the World Juniors and the Olympics, they pass on guys who put up way more points than others because the role players make the team more well rounded and cohesive. This could be for on ice (field) differences but also to build better team chemistry which starts in the locker room.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

4 minutes ago, Fresh Prince of MTL said:

I don't agree with this. You take the total team that will help you win, not the best individual players. You see this often with Team Canada hockey in the World Juniors and the Olympics, they pass on guys who put up way more points than others because the role players make the team more well rounded and cohesive. This could be for on ice (field) differences but also to build better team chemistry which starts in the locker room.

Wasn't there some Gretzky interview along those lines about the Salt Lake Oympic team that ended 50 years of hurt (as the English sing about).  

[grigorio]

3 hours ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

If it came down to Choiniere or Arfield, I'd take Choiniere. 

And yet Herdman would take neither. 

[grigorio]

18 minutes ago, Fresh Prince of MTL said:

I don't agree with this. You take the total team that will help you win, not the best individual players. You see this often with Team Canada hockey in the World Juniors and the Olympics, they pass on guys who put up way more points than others because the role players make the team more well rounded and cohesive. This could be for on ice (field) differences but also to build better team chemistry which starts in the locker room.

The massive difference here being Canada hockey has the freedom to pick and choose whoever they want knowing that even role players on their team can compete with other countries' top players. Canada in soccer (already at a massive talent disadvantage) should not be in a position to not take its absolute best players when they're having to punch waaaaay above their weight class against the world's best to give themselves a chance. IMO in global soccer competition the talent gap is too huge to overcome with a good team guy who's good in the room (unless you're a top 5 country). 

[costarg]

Reading the past few pages we make it sound like this guy came to MLS to retire and collect one more cheque. 

Just watched him play the 90 vs CFM and I can tell you he's more than hustling, he was the highest presser on Charlotte, made his way all the way to pressure Sirois twice, pulling the strings in attacking mid for Charlotte, threw a few tough tackles (to none other than his former CANMNT team mate Piette).  If Charlotte was gonna produce anything, it would've been through Arfield.  Probably a little slower than his Premiere League days, but still covers a lot of ground and still gives it his all.  

[Fresh Prince of MTL]

51 minutes ago, costarg said:

Reading the past few pages we make it sound like this guy came to MLS to retire and collect one more cheque. 

Just watched him play the 90 vs CFM and I can tell you he's more than hustling, he was the highest presser on Charlotte, made his way all the way to pressure Sirois twice, pulling the strings in attacking mid for Charlotte, threw a few tough tackles (to none other than his former CANMNT team mate Piette).  If Charlotte was gonna produce anything, it would've been through Arfield.  Probably a little slower than his Premiere League days, but still covers a lot of ground and still gives it his all.  

I was at the game and while he hustled he really didn’t impress me that much. I thought Choiniere and Piette (both coming off injuries no less) both had more eventful and impressive games than him while playing more defensive roles

[trc2014]

I have zero evidence of this, but someone is saying on FB that Arfield and Piette switched jerseys post game and then Arfield immediately threw Piette’s jersey into the crowd.

[Bertuzzi44]

15 hours ago, trc2014 said:

I have zero evidence of this, but someone is saying on FB that Arfield and Piette switched jerseys post game and then Arfield immediately threw Piette’s jersey into the crowd.

What they said was that Piette asked and they swapped jerseys, and afterwards Arfield gave the jersey to a fan. 

No big deal if true IMO