El Hombre Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 We're doing well because we got right coaching staff unlike Under 20 who have been crap especially since a lot of these kids are being trained and manage by professionals now. We need someone with professional background to run Under 20 team. Exactly. It's pretty telling when Fleming can walk a team to the U17 World Cup and then that same team flames out pretty spectacularly two years later at the U20 level. The first team minutes excuse is a dubious stretch. Occam's razor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Cockney Rip Off Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 It's not u17 that's our problem, Its when these kids play against other countries who have players getting 1st team minutes 2 years from now in u20 qualification. Which shows the problem isn't really opportunities or development at the grass roots level, but it is the lack of opportunities at the professional level for Canadian players. This seems to contradict what the pundits are saying. This is where MLS is failing us. We can point to the MLS academies all we like and say how wonderful they are for youth football, but if they are not developing professional footballers, it is a pretty hollow victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northvansteve Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Maybe Sean Fleming is a really good coach? Just a thought... Only saw 2nd half. The team looked organized on defense and had some speed and control offensively. Boakye and Borges were the best players. Sadicki looked dominant in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Maybe Sean Fleming is a really good coach? Just a thought... Shhh...that's too easy. Let's build an elaborate smoking gun that's a riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a puzzle. That'll explain everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Exactly. It's pretty telling when Fleming can walk a team to the U17 World Cup and then that same team flames out pretty spectacularly two years later at the U20 level. The first team minutes excuse is a dubious stretch. Occam's razor. Exactly. It's pretty telling when Fleming can walk a team to the U17 World Cup and then that same team flames out pretty spectacularly two years later at the U20 level. The first team minutes excuse is a dubious stretch. Occam's razor.Disagree. We lost to Honduras off a wonder strike by a guy who had been playing 1st team minutes in his domestic league and had signed a DP contract with Orlando, our striker was drafted by the same team as him and had never played a pro game that night. Hanson Boakai was arguably the best player for us in the tourney and he was nursing an injury. Coincidence he plays first team minutes with the Eddies? No. Sean Flemming is big part of u17 success, but ignoring where our players are playing at u20 is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Disagree. We lost to Honduras off a wonder strike by a guy who had been playing 1st team minutes in his domestic league and had signed a DP contract with Orlando, our striker was drafted by the same team as him and had never played a pro game that night. Sean Flemming is big part of u17 success, but ignoring where our players are playing at u20 is ridiculous. We were already out of it by that point. Please enlighten me as to why we lost to Cuba and El Salvador prior to that game. Were they stacked with first team minutes as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 We were already out of it by that point. Please enlighten me as to why we lost to Cuba and El Salvador prior to that game. Were they stacked with first team minutes as well? No, but would our players be in a better position to win those games if they had first team minutes? Gale did a bad job coaching, but also hard for him to control things like his keeper randomly passing the ball to a Cuban forward to score. A pro would also know how to respond better to adversity, with the pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Fleming also isn't rotating his squad like Gale did. He picks his starters and plays them, only changing 1 or 2 per game. Gale was into squad rotation despite the fact that some of his players badly outplayed others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Fleming also isn't rotating his squad like Gale did. He picks his starters and plays them, only changing 1 or 2 per game. Gale was into squad rotation despite the fact that some of his players badly outplayed others. This is key. Playing in the evening has probably made it easier on the players too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 It's not u17 that's our problem, Its when these kids play against other countries who have players getting 1st team minutes 2 years from now in u20 qualification. That may indeed be part of it (I tend to think that coaching & game-time conditions can also be hugely significant) - but assuming that's correct and the main explanation, it still runs counter to what the article I was cheekily responding to was expressly arguing - which was that more pro clubs in Canada wouldn't help and that the solution to our problem "lies at the bottom of the pyramid" in Canada (ie. the "grassroots" level). Anyway, good on the boys for the performances thus far, they've shown a lot of character in this tournament, coming from behind now 3 games in a row to get a positive result. They came back twice against Costa Rica so that is now 4 equalizers in 3 games. Great mentality along with the promising talent! Now just don't get cocky.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 No, but would our players be in a better position to win those games if they had first team minutes? Gale did a bad job coaching, but also hard for him to control things like his keeper randomly passing the ball to a Cuban forward to score. A pro would also know how to respond better to adversity, with the pressure. So, the argument is: our players would do better if they were better. Interesting. Hard to argue with that logic. Let's take it another step and start complaining that they'd probably do much better as a team at the U20 level if we had Hutch running the midfield. Why do our players need something that our competition doesn't have in order to beat them? Sure, it would definitely help. I'm not arguing that. But so would a lot of things. Latching on to this one detail as the smoking gun is ridiculous. I think one thing everyone needs to realize is that we can't (and shouldn't expect to) walk over anyone in CONCACAF. That's not how soccer works. I think that assumption raises expectations to such an extent that we stop seeing the forest for the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Now just don't get cocky.... Amen. It's rare that I've been nervous for a game against St. Lucia. They scored 2 against Panama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 So, the argument is: our players would do better if they were better. Interesting. Hard to argue with that logic. Let's take it another step and start complaining that they'd probably do much better as a team at the U20 level if we had Hutch running the midfield. Why do our players need something that our competition doesn't have in order to beat them? Right up there with my comparison between certain pro and non pro players to which you dismissed"we were out of it by then"? We weren't. Kettle...black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 So, the argument is: our players would do better if they were better. Interesting. Hard to argue with that logic. Let's take it another step and start complaining that they'd probably do much better as a team at the U20 level if we had Hutch running the midfield. Why do our players need something that our competition doesn't have in order to beat them? You totally ignored the post. Way to not respond to the points raised, adversity etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northvansteve Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Maybe I'm naive but we might also be beginning to see the benefits of a generation of players that has been getting professional academy training since they were what, 11 or 12 years old? The missing link for us has been when they reach that 18, 19 and 20-year-old age and there's no where to play at a higher level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 You totally ignored the post. Way to not respond to the points raised, adversity etc... I actually went back and toned it down a bit. Oh well. No big deal. With regards to adversity, that falls directly on the coach at most age groups below 25. The coach has to prepare the team properly and make sure they understand what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Right up there with my comparison between certain pro and non pro players to which you dismissed"we were out of it by then"? We weren't. Kettle...black. I didn't dismiss it. I just highlighted the fact that your "proof" came at a point when we had already been eliminated by Cuba and El Salvador. Find me the first team all stars on those two teams that are responsible for our losses. I tried on Wikipedia, but there are a whole lot of non-links there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aloyol Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I remember that time, not too long ago in 2009, when a lot of members of this forum wanted Fleming fired for "throwing the team under the bus" after loosing to Cuba and missing the qualification for the WC. Good results tonight, a tie against Mexico at the youth level is always nice. If we can win our last 2 games we have a shot at finishing first and getting the direct spot to the WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I remember that time, not too long ago in 2009, when a lot of members of this forum wanted Fleming fired for "throwing the team under the bus" after loosing to Cuba and missing the qualification for the WC. You can actually find a thread from last week that wanted the same thing with regards to Fleming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolvid Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I remember someone saying way before u-17>u-20 even after the u-20's results. U-17 is looking great. Hopefully we can get a straight shot to the finals if costa rica gets a a tie or win vs mexico. Although tbh the best team in this tourny is mexico, but in fact the U.S. I only got to see the first half of U.S vs Guatemala but they were playing beautifully. The dortmund player they have is a stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The Americans do well when they're all Germans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolvid Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The Americans do well when they're all Germans. I actually checked to see if he was part german lol. But nah american born and raised with a croatian grandpa so that how he got his eu passport to go play for dortmund. The team in general is american/hispanic americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Well I'll be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toje Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Full game 720p (torrent) - http://usasoccerarchives.com/index.php?page=torrent-details&id=eebe0941970f81a1dbff3d15160a592a3778653f I am not sure if it is in English or Spanish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msilverstein47 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 sometimes a tie is nice: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2015/03/07/canada-1-mexico-1-concacaf-u-17-championship-recap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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