Jonathan Osorio

[Bison44]

I imagine both Oso and Choniere will get chances in these upcoming friendlies.  I hope Marsch comes up with some sort of midfield combo between kone/eustaquio and ________ and it works.  Because we are likely to be over run and our opponents are going to make most of our team look bad, ghosts as its being put these days.  But these are the sort of tough tests we have all asked for and our guys that come out of this will be better equiped for the COPA.  Lets just hope some of that "team" spirit we had going for us is still there.  

[costarg]

16 hours ago, FC_Hali said:

I appreciate Osorio for his career thus far, particularly with TFC. It’s very cool that we live in an era where a Canadian player can play their entire career with their hometown club, starting from the academy and working their way up to a DP contract. His career is symbolic where he’s built his success not just outside of Europe but all within his home city. I respect any player for that accomplishment.

That said, I just haven’t seen what it is that makes him so highly rated. What he’s exceptional at, IMO, is making runs into the box and getting into high xG areas. A good example of this was his goal in the WCQ game at Azteca (assisted by Alphonso). I would like to see more of this from him but it’s actually pretty rare. I think he’s also a decent connector, though not exceptional. Aside from that, he’s only ever shown flashes and is largely inconsistent, including his injury history. Athletically he’s limited, which is fine if he brings other tools to the table. He’s loose in possession, and defensively he can put in a shift but is really a liability. Tactically, he’s challenging to play with because he’s an offensive midfielder who isn’t a number 10, nor a winger. For me, he’s a luxury player for a good team but not a guy you can build around. This was pretty clear in the last Gold Cup where I expected a lot more from him as one of the key guys without David, Alphonso, Tajon, etc.   Hope he proves me wrong and has some big moments for both club and country in the years ahead.

That’s just my opinion, many on here will probably disagree and that’s cool.✌️

This is pretty fair and accurate while also being a little harsh.  You make some good points on both sides.

For me, Osorio stands out for showing up in the big moments, he's certainly got a knack for it.  So it's easy to think of the great moments we've enjoyed.  You're also right that he can easily disappear in some games and seems to be everywhere the ball isn't, even if he never stops running.  Even if he's not the fastest, quickest or most athletic, he does run a lot, so it's not laziness.  While he's well above average and exceeds expectations offensively, he lacks in defensive awareness, even if the effort is there.

I also feel he plays better when surrounded by better players.  It Can probably be said about most guys, but I just feel it's even more apparent in his case.  He's got a high ceiling, but it's limited by the squad around him.  He wouldn't be out of place on some powerhouses, but can also easily look like the weakest link on a bad team.

I haven't seen him grab a game by the neck and decide things on his own.  He will however give you those 5 seconds where he creates something out of nothing.  The stats might show him as the best player on his side, but he won't necessarily carry the team on his shoulders.

[anthony7]

36 minutes ago, VinceA said:

The nations league final is a poor example because our whole team was outclassed. 

Our supposed "fearless" players were borderline useless.

That game soured me on Buchanan as a starter and outside the Trinidad game which was, well against Trinidad, he hasn't done much to convince me otherwise.

Osorio has a history of being big in big moments for Toronto and for us and I want to see what he can do while actually healthy.

Does he need to start? No really but he has a place in this team.

I feel some fans forget that especially recently, our big players have fallen well short of the mark since the World Cup.

TFC plays better without him and it’s evident. The Nations League Final was a great example. You could see who were the big eye sores in such a high stake game. If you rewatch the highlights, Kennedy & Osorio really stood out. Kennedy was phased out and Oso has not. I’m just saying, you need to stop holding onto to the past. Holding onto to players like Osorio are doing more harm than good.

Edited June 1 by anthony7

[Kadenge]

1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

I imagine both Oso and Choniere will get chances in these upcoming friendlies.  I hope Marsch comes up with some sort of midfield combo between kone/eustaquio and ________ and it works.  Because we are likely to be over run and our opponents are going to make most of our team look bad, ghosts as its being put these days.  But these are the sort of tough tests we have all asked for and our guys that come out of this will be better equiped for the COPA.  Lets just hope some of that "team" spirit we had going for us is still there.  

Spot on. I haven't watched Oso this season other than the odd highlights. Is his play close to pre-injury Oso? He was having a great season in 2022 prior to the concussion?  My only concern and it really depends on when he enters the game is: 

1. Does he have the legs to keep up with the  teams we face in the next 3-5 games? On both sides of the ball as we won't have a lot of possession and will have to chase/ win the ball back a lot.

2. We have a lot of speed in our front 4/5, does Oso have the quick progression passing like Kone & Staq for a counter attacking style?

3. Not saying Ahmed lost out due to Oso, but regardless of what some are saying about his play this yr, Ahmed was one of the most impressive players at the GC. 

[costarg]

8 hours ago, Obinna said:

I don't get the pearl clutching over Osorio.

The man has 71 caps and 9 goals for Canada and will soon be 32 years old. Make what you want of his current or recent play, but those are his career stats for the national team. You can't fraud your way into those numbers.

And he's not earning tons of money, he's on a similar number to Sam Adekugbe and isn't even a DP player anymore. What's the problem here?

If Marsch wants to challenge him to be our Sasha Kljestan, fine by me. I just don't get why some guys are so bothered by his existence. I don't think Osorio is going to play much, but if he does I am willing to reserve judgement until I see how he looks on the field, just as I would any player.

@FC_Hali while I don't agree with your take, at least it is fair, respectful, and realistic. 

@anthony7 once again bro you're not really convincing anyone with your takes. Osorio is what he is, he's never been a player to take over a game, so why do you expect that? I have never seen Ahmed or Choiniere take over a game either. I am all for investing in both played but won't lose a wink of sleep if Osorio is chosen over either. Both of these guys have nice upsides and more than Oso at this stage, obviously, but they are still jacks of all trades, masters of none. And I have said it before, but Mr. Freaking All Star Choiniere was a commissioners pick, was he not? Probably just throwing the Canadian fan base a bone, just as he did with Kamal Miller the year prior. Anyways, I really don't mean to bash Choiniere or defend Osorio, just wanted to share my thoughts and push back on your Osorio opinions. Like, what do you expect? He's never been a 10. He's never been a dominant player. He's never been an athletic freak. He's never been a shooter from outside the box. He's always been a glue player who gets by using his brain and close control to get by. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The only thing wrong is expecting him to be something he is not.

The only thing I agree with is that TFC could do well to get a DP level number 10 (even though the game in general is moving away from those players..)

I'd have to disagree with the bolded part.  I've seen both Ahmed and Choiniere change a game on their own.  I also feel both are more rounded and offer more weapons overall. 

Like you, I wouldn't lose sleep on Osorio playing ahead of Ahmed or Choiniere in a match today, yet i would argue if we were talking about 2023 Osorio.  I wonder if he should have been playing that soon after the injury, something did not seem right with him last year.

[anthony7]

5 minutes ago, costarg said:

I'd have to disagree with the bolded part.  I've seen both Ahmed and Choiniere change a game on their own.  I also feel both are more rounded and offer more weapons overall. 

Like you, I wouldn't lose sleep on Osorio playing ahead of Ahmed or Choiniere in a match today, yet i would argue if we were talking about 2023 Osorio.  I wonder if he should have been playing that soon after the injury, something did not seem right with him last year.

Thank you. Someone with actual common sense.

[anthony7]

7 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Spot on. I haven't watched Oso this season other than the odd highlights. Is his play close to pre-injury Oso? He was having a great season in 2022 prior to the concussion?  My only concern and it really depends on when he enters the game is: 

1. Does he have the legs to keep up with the  teams we face in the next 3-5 games? On both sides of the ball as we won't have a lot of possession and will have to chase/ win the ball back a lot.

2. We have a lot of speed in our front 4/5, does Oso have the quick progression passing like Kone & Staq for a counter attacking style?

3. Not saying Ahmed lost out due to Oso, but regardless of what some are saying about his play this yr, Ahmed was one of the most impressive players at the GC. 

Exactly, thank you!!!!

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, costarg said:

I'd have to disagree with the bolded part.  I've seen both Ahmed and Choiniere change a game on their own.  I also feel both are more rounded and offer more weapons overall. 

Like you, I wouldn't lose sleep on Osorio playing ahead of Ahmed or Choiniere in a match today, yet i would argue if we were talking about 2023 Osorio.  I wonder if he should have been playing that soon after the injury, something did not seem right with him last year.

I'll risk getting into semantics here and say changing a game and taking a game over are different. Choiniere and Ahmed can and have changed games. I have never seen either to take over a game, like I have seen from let's say Alphonso Davies or Tajon Buchanan. 

Main point though we agree with. Jury is out on whether Osorio. Will he step up to the challenge and find a role in line with Marsch's vision of what he could be?

There was no guarantee of any kind given to Osorio from Marsch in that statement (sorry @anthony7). 

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, anthony7 said:

Thank you. Someone with actual common sense.

Indeed Choiniere and Ahmed are more well rounded and offer more weapons overall. Nobody here is arguing otherwise.

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, anthony7 said:

Exactly, thank you!!!!

Why are you thanking him did he do you a favour? Lol

@Kadenge made a completely sensible post, nothing like the fiction you posted.

[Obinna]

@anthony7

And I will add, I share the exact same concerns @Kadenge is talking about. I think we all do. The difference is he is not irrate about Osorio getting selected. Is he doubtful Oso has what it takes to impress? Probably, but hell I put myself in that category too. Most of us probably do.

Oso has the chance now. If he makes the most of it then good. If not, then oh well.

Edited June 1 by Obinna

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Tried skimming this hot topic and can't see it mentioned but sorry if done.

Marsch explicitly mentioned he sees a place for Osorio.  "An intelligent head in the centre of park" - or something similar. 

I look similarly at someone like Emil Forsberg, who he still gave some decent minutes to among all the "Red Bull" types. At attacking midfielder.

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Tried skimming this hot topic and can't see it mentioned but sorry if done.

Marsch explicitly mentioned he sees a place for Osorio.  "An intelligent head in the centre of park" - or something similar. 

I look similarly at someone like Emil Forsberg, who he still gave some decent minutes to among all the "Red Bull" types. At attacking midfielder.

We have just gotten dragged into a nonsense argument about a player who will probably be a periphery player at best, so nothing to see here. You can move on.

[SoccMan]

2 hours ago, anthony7 said:

No, I don’t want liabilities or passengers in the midfield. Games are won or lost in the midfield.

What’s the real story ? There is definitely more to this incredible hate for this player. I’m guessing you played with him or against him as a youth player . He ended up making it in soccer and making a very good living where if he has managed his money might actually not have to work a 9 to 5 job when he retires, while you are still pissed off you never made it in the game and instead are left coming on message boards and just posting hate for the guy . Give it a break bud , your hate for this guy is getting tiring !

[Alex]

I personally hope Osorio is named captain vs the Dutch. 

[anthony7]

16 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I'll risk getting into semantics here and say changing a game and taking a game over are different. Choiniere and Ahmed can and have changed games. I have never seen either to take over a game, like I have seen from let's say Alphonso Davies or Tajon Buchanan. 

Main point though we agree with. Jury is out on whether Osorio. Will he step up to the challenge and find a role in line with Marsch's vision of what he could be?

There was no guarantee of any kind given to Osorio from Marsch in that statement (sorry @anthony7). 

Are you actually that naive? When a coach singles out a player specifically and talks about how he wants to use him while comparing him to a player in his previous coaching tenure is a dead giveaway. Marsch sees Oso as an integral piece to the National Team. It’s very disappointing and scary to fathom that. Oso is not the answer and doesn’t warrant a place in the starting 11, period. Canada will be truly fucked if this is his mindset right at the jump. Mark my words. GIVE THE NEXT GENERATION OF MIDFIELDERS OPPORTUNITIES TO SHINE!!!!!!!

[Kadenge]

1 minute ago, anthony7 said:

Are you actually that naive? When a coach singles out a player specifically and talks about how he wants to use him while comparing him to a player in his previous coaching tenure is a dead giveaway. Marsch sees Oso as an integral piece to the National Team. It’s very disappointing and scary to fathom that. Oso is not the answer and doesn’t warrant a place in the starting 11, period. Canada will be truly fucked if this is his mindset right at the jump. Mark my words. GIVE THE NEXT GENERATION OF MIDFIELDERS OPPORTUNITIES TO SHINE!!!!!!!

Diplomacy. It's a nice skillset to have when you manage any team,  sport or work.

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Diplomacy. It's a nice skillset to have when you manage any team,  sport or work.

Exactly, thank you!!!!

15 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

What’s the real story ? There is definitely more to this incredible hate for this player. I’m guessing you played with him or against him as a youth player . He ended up making it in soccer and making a very good living where if he has managed his money might actually not have to work a 9 to 5 job when he retires, while you are still pissed off you never made it in the game and instead are left coming on message boards and just posting hate for the guy . Give it a break bud , your hate for this guy is getting tiring !

Maybe @anthony7 is really this guy?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Osorio

Sibling rivalry gone too far?

[costarg]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I hope Marsch comes up with some sort of midfield combo between kone/eustaquio and ________ and it works.  Because we are likely to be over run and our opponents are going to make most of our team look bad, ghosts as its being put these days. 

I hope you're right, but judging by the roster I feel it looks like Marsch will be going with 2 in the middle.

[costarg]

2 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Tried skimming this hot topic and can't see it mentioned but sorry if done.

Marsch explicitly mentioned he sees a place for Osorio.  "An intelligent head in the centre of park" - or something similar. 

Yup, he mentioned knowing Osorio and having played against him, which is great in the sense he'll know exactly what and who he's dealing with.  Mentioned seeming him play the Kljestan role in the midfield.  I can get onboard with that.

[FC_Hali]

4 hours ago, costarg said:

I also feel he plays better when surrounded by better players.  It Can probably be said about most guys, but I just feel it's even more apparent in his case.  He's got a high ceiling, but it's limited by the squad around him.  He wouldn't be out of place on some powerhouses, but can also easily look like the weakest link on a bad team.

Completely agree. He was the 4th or 5th best player on those great TFC teams (2016-18) but he certainly was an important player who had some big moments. Same can be said for him in WCQ.

[Bison44]

Hmmmm, hockey assist on first goal.....its mr invisible.  

[CanadaFan123]

3 hours ago, costarg said:

Yup, he mentioned knowing Osorio and having played against him, which is great in the sense he'll know exactly what and who he's dealing with.  Mentioned seeming him play the Kljestan role in the midfield.  I can get onboard with that.

He never played against Osorio so I assume he meant when he coached against him. 

[Kadenge]

1 hour ago, FC_Hali said:

Completely agree. He was the 4th or 5th best player on those great TFC teams (2016-18) but he certainly was an important player who had some big moments. Same can be said for him in WCQ.

Many years ago now, but he also  won the golden boot when TFC reached the finals of the CCL.

[costarg]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

He never played against Osorio so I assume he meant when he coached against him. 

Yes you're right, that's what I meant.  Shouldn't have written "played against".