BearcatSA Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 4 hours ago, TOcanadafan said: I've always felt he plays best when surrounded by better players... That would be the case for any role player. The big evolution for him over his career has been recognizing what his best role is and sticking to it, playing to his strengths in the process. costarg and Shway 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver 2.0 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 hours ago, nolando said: It sounds like Flores 2.0 is a real gem. Wasn't it Carl Robinson who signed Flores? He figured he had real potential, but he was maybe too young, maybe suffering from culture shock, to stick the team the first time in MLS. But he looked great today, and it sounds to me as though he has been solid for TFC in all three games. Great pick up. Shway, nolando, costarg and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaFan123 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 9 hours ago, nolando said: It sounds like Flores 2.0 is a real gem. Talk about low expectations. I’ve read the hype so watched him closely yesterday… I don’t get it. A poor man’s Piette is what I saw. I think 9 seasons of Bradley will do that though. DeRo_Is_King, nolando, RS and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGAA_Star Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Another who is definitely locked in for T & T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, TGAA_Star said: Another who is definitely locked in for T & T His consistency, leadership, and experience is what could make him a "lock". However, in this near future I think Ahmed will be better in his role. costarg, DeRo_Is_King, lamptern and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeRo_Is_King Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 7 minutes ago, Shway said: His consistency, leadership, and experience is what could make him a "lock". However, in this near future I think Ahmed will be better in his role. There are just too many young players with similar skill levels to not be thinking about the future at this point. nolando, costarg, Corazon and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, TGAA_Star said: Another who is definitely locked in for T & T Maybe due to his history, not based on anything from yesterday. Yesterdays stats: Least touches of anyone on TFC (90min) Successful dribbles: 0/2 Tackles:0/0 Duels: 0/3 Aerial duels: 0/3 In his defense, he was the most accurate passer. The Italians are criticized for skipping defensive duties, while the most guilty party is one of our own. He needs to do more. DeRo_Is_King, nolando, Shway and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 2 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said: Talk about low expectations. I’ve read the hype so watched him closely yesterday… I don’t get it. A poor man’s Piette is what I saw. I think 9 seasons of Bradley will do that though. This revisionist history that Michael Bradley was awful for almost his entire tenure at TFC is an interesting one. Anyway Flores has been great for Osorio as others have said. Flores' presence frees Osorio up to stay higher up the field, which is where he's most effective. 30 minutes ago, costarg said: Maybe due to his history, not based on anything from yesterday. Yesterdays stats: Least touches of anyone on TFC (90min) Successful dribbles: 0/2 Tackles:0/0 Duels: 0/3 Aerial duels: 0/3 In his defense, he was the most accurate passer. The Italians are criticized for skipping defensive duties, while the most guilty party is one of our own. He needs to do more. He had a quiet game on Saturday but was fine in the previous two. And no, Osorio has never been "the most guilty party" at TFC despite your weird crusade against him. Ivan, TOcanadafan, BearcatSA and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 4 minutes ago, RS said: This revisionist history that Michael Bradley was awful for almost his entire tenure at TFC is an interesting one. Anyway Flores has been great for Osorio as others have said. Flores' presence frees Osorio up to stay higher up the field, which is where he's most effective. He had a quiet game on Saturday but was fine in the previous two. And no, Osorio has never been "the most guilty party" at TFC despite your weird crusade against him. Dude, if you cannot handle seeing stats from Fotmob or deal with honest commentary, get off this site, grab some kleenex, go to your man cave with the Bradly posters and watch clips from 2017. "Fine" is not what I was hoping for Osorio, I want to see the guy from 2022. narduch, Unnamed Trialist and RS 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shorty Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 minutes ago, costarg said: "Fine" is not what I was hoping for Osorio, I want to see the guy from 2022. Not agreeing with the insults being thrown around, but I think you’re both right. He did have a quiet game and the stats don’t lie. However I would be interested to see kms covered as well. I think you will be disappointed hoping for 2022 Osorio because he appears to be tasked with something different so far, which is to lead and organize the high press. A lot of that work, even if done well, might not translate into the stats you’ve quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shorty Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 And also, I would agree that this maximizing of Osorio’s effectiveness by changing his role won’t translate well to the MNT. Doesn’t mean he won’t still be chosen for a MF role that he is aging out of (similar to how Bradley aged out of his effectiveness but was still chosen). Hopefully whoever runs the MNT going forward is more clear-eyed about his current abilities, and that not selecting him is no insult to what he brought in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaFan123 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, RS said: This revisionist history that Michael Bradley was awful for almost his entire tenure at TFC is an interesting one. Anyway Flores has been great for Osorio as others have said. Flores' presence frees Osorio up to stay higher up the field, which is where he's most effective. He had a quiet game on Saturday but was fine in the previous two. And no, Osorio has never been "the most guilty party" at TFC despite your weird crusade against him. I never said Bradley was bad. I think fans are just happy to see a simple midfielder rather than someone trying to do too much. Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 4 hours ago, shorty said: Not agreeing with the insults being thrown around, but I think you’re both right. He did have a quiet game and the stats don’t lie. However I would be interested to see kms covered as well. I think you will be disappointed hoping for 2022 Osorio because he appears to be tasked with something different so far, which is to lead and organize the high press. A lot of that work, even if done well, might not translate into the stats you’ve quoted. You’re right. There is just a limit to many times one has to put up with accusations of being anti-TFC, Osorio or Bradley for pointing out the slightest deficiency that is obvious to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadenge Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Frankly, if we need a 3rd CM to stabilize things I don't think Oso is that player anymore if he needs a DM with range for cover. David Larin, Tajon, Davies, Staq & Kone give us lots of attacking firepower. I would rather insert a mid that can operate effectively on both sides of the ball with pace and cover a lot of ground, alternating with Staq & Kone on attack/defending. Even if that profile sounds a bit like Staq & Kone. To me we have players that can do that better than Oso right now and it would help stabilize the defence. yomurphy1 and narduch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 3 hours ago, Kadenge said: Frankly, if we need a 3rd CM to stabilize things I don't think Oso is that player anymore if he needs a DM with range for cover. David Larin, Tajon, Davies, Staq & Kone give us lots of attacking firepower. I would rather insert a mid that can operate effectively on both sides of the ball with pace and cover a lot of ground, alternating with Staq & Kone on attack/defending. Even if that profile sounds a bit like Staq & Kone. To me we have players that can do that better than Oso right now and it would help stabilize the defence. Eustaquio and Kone teamed with a more dedicated d-mid to read the play, provide coverage for them when they are in advanced positions as well as for the wingbacks/fullbacks on the attack, and winning tackles so we can go on the quick counter: that's the ideal player for me. Bigandy and yomurphy1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 22 hours ago, costarg said: Dude, if you cannot handle seeing stats from Fotmob or deal with honest commentary, get off this site, grab some kleenex, go to your man cave with the Bradly posters and watch clips from 2017. "Fine" is not what I was hoping for Osorio, I want to see the guy from 2022. Honest commentary would be including his ratings in fotmob for the other 2 performances. He got a 7.0 and a 7.9 (the highest outfield player). To tell someone they cant handle "honest commentary" and need a kleenex for saying oso is fine, is nonsense; especially considering the "fine" performance was the highest rated. We all want prime oso but this weird dichotomy of: Oso is garbage or he plays like 2021/2022 is silly. Oso can still provide value (even if its less than 2022 and not as a starter or even) if hes declined somewhat. If Oso continues to average above a 7.0 rating - which he has over 3 games, then I think we are all happy. Obinna, RS, Corazon and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, Bigandy said: Honest commentary would be including his ratings in fotmob for the other 2 performances. He got a 7.0 and a 7.9 (the highest outfield player). To tell someone they cant handle "honest commentary" and need a kleenex for saying oso is fine, is nonsense; especially considering the "fine" performance was the highest rated. We all want prime oso but this weird dichotomy of: Oso is garbage or he plays like 2021/2022 is silly. Oso can still provide value (even if its less than 2022 and not as a starter or even) if hes declined somewhat. If Oso continues to average above a 7.0 rating - which he has over 3 games, then I think we are all happy. We all know FotMob, SofaScore are useful, yet lacking in some ways. One can't just look at overall scores, you need to look a little deeper. Did you watch the match? Did you see the details in the ratings? Offensive stuff gets a lot of points, like successful passes - which is his thing. Even one creative chance can tilt the ratings heavily in ones favor. The issue is he is not putting in the defensive effort required or expected of someone in his position. This is exactly what we saw his last matches for CANMNT as well. This is over 3 matches. Saying he is not putting in a two-way effort is not insulting or based on some vendetta, just reality. If you have time to spare go see my comments regarding Osorio pre-concussion. I just don't feel we owe players caps because of their history. Pro sports is a tough business. But hey, if you're comfortable with him, that is also fine. My point is we know CANMNT needs better defending in the midfield. It's been a weak spot for a long time. The kleenex comment wasn't about saying Oso is fine. You are missing context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, costarg said: We all know FotMob, SofaScore are useful, yet lacking in some ways. One can't just look at overall scores, you need to look a little deeper. Did you watch the match? Did you see the details in the ratings? Offensive stuff gets a lot of points, like successful passes - which is his thing. Even one creative chance can tilt the ratings heavily in ones favor. The issue is he is not putting in the defensive effort required or expected of someone in his position. This is exactly what we saw his last matches for CANMNT as well. This is over 3 matches. Saying he is not putting in a two-way effort is not insulting or based on some vendetta, just reality. If you have time to spare go see my comments regarding Osorio pre-concussion. I just don't feel we owe players caps because of their history. Pro sports is a tough business. But hey, if you're comfortable with him, that is also fine. My point is we know CANMNT needs better defending in the midfield. It's been a weak spot for a long time. The kleenex comment wasn't about saying Oso is fine. You are missing context. My point is that you choose to use fotmob scores to justify your argument to the point you are talking about kleenex. However, when the fotmob scores do not justify youre argument, you say they lack. Thats picking and choosing to fit your narrative and its over the top. Oso isnt the player he once was, but hes certainly not at the level where you have villainized him. Context is also important. In the 3-4-2-1 formation that TFC has played, insigne and oso play as the 2. Oso at 8% compared to insigne at 4% shows that its a bit of a tactical choice as well. Lets compare to a guy like millar who plays with his heart on his sleeves and busts his ass (and can play wingback so his defensive stats should be much higher). Both have 8% defensive actions Both under 50% in duels won oso is at 100% tackles won and millar under 50%. oso has won possession in the final 3rd 4 times in 3 games. millar is 15 in 30. The sample sizes are very unfair and positional comparison is unfair. However, Im showing you that you are using metrics to say oso is shit and then ignore very similar metrics of others. The bias over the "older guys" is so weird and it feels like your obsessing over trashing them. Lets move on but moving on doesnt mean having a radical agenda. RS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 I haven't been watching Oso closely nor have I been reading the back and forth here closely, but Oso seems pretty decent so far this season, no? It's two games, but he looks fine to me. The NFP guys mentioned he looks good next to Flores and being used higher up the field is a better role for him. Seems to jive from the bits and pieces of the first two games I have seen. Problem lately was that Oso was losing duels and it was particularly evident at the Gold Cup, but if he's higher up the field it minimizes that risk, I suppose. Corazon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueseeka Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Watched all three of Osorio's game this year. He has been good. He plays higher in the midfield that Coello and Flores do. He has done a good job in connecting plays together. He definitely isn't the player he was years ago but he also is avoiding injuries so far this year. Defensively, TFC have yet to give up a goal in three games. He doesn't track back that far but it also hasn't been his job. He has been very good with outlet passes. He definitely has been good enough to play on CMNT midfield this year. 7/10 Corazon, Unnamed Trialist, Club Linesman and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 6 minutes ago, Obinna said: I haven't been watching Oso closely nor have I been reading the back and forth here closely, but Oso seems pretty decent so far this season, no? It's two games, but he looks fine to me. The NFP guys mentioned he looks good next to Flores and being used higher up the field is a better role for him. Seems to jive from the bits and pieces of the first two games I have seen. Problem lately was that Oso was losing duels and it was particularly evident at the Gold Cup, but if he's higher up the field it minimizes that risk, I suppose. Your assessment is accurate. This past weekend, I actually thought the team would have been more effective in generating offence if he dropped back a bit to provide that passing option on the way toward goal instead of playing quite so high. That's me questioning the coach's instructions, however, not a criticism of the player. Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadenge Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 I'm curious. When was the last time Oso started for Canada? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 7 minutes ago, Kadenge said: I'm curious. When was the last time Oso started for Canada? nations league final I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaFan123 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 14 minutes ago, Kadenge said: I'm curious. When was the last time Oso started for Canada? He started against Japan in October. Last competitive start was the Gold Cup QF. Corazon, Kadenge and Bigandy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noted Penguin Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) Osorio's an asset for all the rreasons tha may not show up in stats don'ttake my word for it just listen to the answer to question six and tell me he's wrong if you want Edited March 11 by Noted Penguin CanadaFan123, Bigandy and Corazon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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