Steven Vitória

[Shway]

6 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Yanked after only 38 minutes.

So our CB pair will be Cornelius and Kennedy it seems

Vitoria out for me

I'll take Corneilius - Miller.
Miller has been solid for Canada, and is having a decent second half season.

[InglewoodJack]

4.8 rating this week, 4.6 last week. That’s tough.

[Ansem]

4 hours ago, Shway said:

I'll take Corneilius - Miller.
Miller has been solid for Canada, and is having a decent second half season.

Miller got exposed at the world cup. He has the potential but he needs to go to another tier.

[jonovision]

4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Miller got exposed at the world cup. He has the potential but he needs to go to another tier.

All of our defenders had moments at the WC where they were exposed. Miller, of course. Vitoria with his lack of recovery speed. Johnson poor aerially.

[Shway]

4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Miller got exposed at the world cup. He has the potential but he needs to go to another tier.

At the World Cup vs 2 of the best teams at the tournament? 

Kennedy struggled against lesser opposition no?

[Ansem]

22 minutes ago, jonovision said:

All of our defenders had moments at the WC where they were exposed. Miller, of course. Vitoria with his lack of recovery speed. Johnson poor aerially.

Miller lacked speed as well. Kennedy is faster and better aerially but in a back 4 where he's been fairly consistent at club level when healthy. AJ needs to go back to RB - I'd like to see that.

We agree on Vitória

24 minutes ago, Shway said:

At the World Cup vs 2 of the best teams at the tournament? 

Kennedy struggled against lesser opposition no?

I'd like to see him in a back 4 for us more consistently.

[jonovision]

If the comparison is to Kennedy, I feel like he's had a lot of moments where he failed to read the game very well. At some point his professional level has to be a fairly close reflection of his ability.

[InglewoodJack]

I'd like to see us go to a back 4 more often. We keep putting Alistair Johnston as a CB and I think he's too good at this point to not be played in his best position. I'd still like to see more of what Hiebert could do for us too. Hopefully the team is right about how good Bombito is too, I think having him as a good CB would solve a lot of post-Vitoria problems.

[nolando]

11 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I'd like to see us go to a back 4 more often. We keep putting Alistair Johnston as a CB and I think he's too good at this point to not be played in his best position. I'd still like to see more of what Hiebert could do for us too. Hopefully the team is right about how good Bombito is too, I think having him as a good CB would solve a lot of post-Vitoria problems.

Hiebert is a missing piece for this puzzle, I completely agree.

[InglewoodJack]

8 minutes ago, nolando said:

Hiebert is a missing piece for this puzzle, I completely agree.

I think he's playing a bit more LB these days? He's looked very good for St. Louis this year, I don't know why we called him once, and then immediately moved on to ZMG. I've liked what I've seen from him. This past window of friendlies would've been a great chance to give him some run. Out of our crop of second string CBs- ZMG, Hiebert, Waterman, Kennedy, I think he's my favourite right now.

[Obinna]

I support the idea of Johnston as a RB. Yes if we shift to a back 3 he can be a RCB, but I think I would like to see him more in his club role. Thing is, Buchanan is playing there right now too, but I would just push him up. 

Also on Heibert, I think perhaps Kennedy was in his spot for Nations League and Gold Cup, that's why we didn't see him. I am sure he'll come back into the picture eventually. Not sure he'll get into the Japan camp, but he's at least in consideration surely. 

[InglewoodJack]

With our best players, we'd need to seriously rejig the lineup to accommodate a back 4, but I'd like to see something like this:

Johnston - Hiebert - Miller - Adekugbe

Kone - Eustaquio - Choiniere

Buchanan - David - Davies

 

Realistically, it's Osorio over Choiniere though. Against weaker teams, I'd like to see Liam Millar at LB too.

[Bigandy]

6 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

With our best players, we'd need to seriously rejig the lineup to accommodate a back 4, but I'd like to see something like this:

Johnston - Hiebert - Miller - Adekugbe

Kone - Eustaquio - Choiniere

Buchanan - David - Davies

 

Realistically, it's Osorio over Choiniere though. Against weaker teams, I'd like to see Liam Millar at LB too.

Johnston ZMG cornelius Davies 

kone staq choiniere

Buchanan david millar 
 

-bombito for ZMG next year if he continues to get reps

-corbeanu, hoilett, kolo, nelson all fighting for millars spot.

- Thinking about 4-2-3-1 with david at cam and larin/jebbo #9 depending on whos on form. 

 

[InglewoodJack]

2 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Johnston ZMG cornelius Davies 

kone staq choiniere

Buchanan david millar 
 

-bombito for ZMG next year if he continues to get reps

-corbeanu, hoilett, kolo, nelson all fighting for millars spot.

- Thinking about 4-2-3-1 with david at cam and larin/jebbo #9 depending on whos on form. 

 

What do you like about ZMG? I think his lack of any sort of speed is a big impediment for him getting into the lineup against any remotely good team.

[narduch]

59 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I think he's playing a bit more LB these days? He's looked very good for St. Louis this year, I don't know why we called him once, and then immediately moved on to ZMG. I've liked what I've seen from him. This past window of friendlies would've been a great chance to give him some run. Out of our crop of second string CBs- ZMG, Hiebert, Waterman, Kennedy, I think he's my favourite right now.

Hiebert also has become a sub the last few matches, by the way.

Edited September 19, 2023 by narduch

[Bigandy]

2 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

What do you like about ZMG? I think his lack of any sort of speed is a big impediment for him getting into the lineup against any remotely good team.

100% agree. Its really a process of elimination. 

Right footed CBs 

Waterman - meh 

mcnaughton - His form is great... I'd give him a chance in a back 4.

bombito - I rate his athleticism and potential. He is probably my first choice, but as a coach I would be hesitant with his lack of experience. I wouldnt trust him at azteca yet. 

ZMG - He seems the most solid of the group. You know what you get. Helps alot aerially and seems to be the most effective defender if the games in front of him. His downside is just so high. 

hiebert - seems meh as well. Doesnt really have a stand out feature that really helps our backline. Isnt rapid, great on the ball, great in the air or a commanding organizer/leader.  

[costarg]

2 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

100% agree. Its really a process of elimination. 

Right footed CBs 

Waterman - meh 

mcnaughton - His form is great... I'd give him a chance in a back 4.

bombito - I rate his athleticism and potential. He is probably my first choice, but as a coach I would be hesitant with his lack of experience. I wouldnt trust him at azteca yet. 

ZMG - He seems the most solid of the group. You know what you get. Helps alot aerially and seems to be the most effective defender if the games in front of him. His downside is just so high. 

hiebert - seems meh as well. Doesnt really have a stand out feature that really helps our backline. Isnt rapid, great on the ball, great in the air or a commanding organizer/leader.  

You nailed it.

Same concerns about Bombito, but I feel he can and should be the ideal pairing with ZMG, with a bit more experience.  It'd give us the required height to control the box.  Our quick FB's and Bombito could provide cover for ZMG's laborious runs. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by costarg

[PiedPilko]

1 hour ago, nolando said:

Hiebert is a missing piece for this puzzle, I completely agree.

By most accounts, Hiebert has really struggled in the second half of the season.

[Bigandy]

20 minutes ago, costarg said:

You nailed it.

Same concerns about Bombito, but I feel he can and should be the ideal pairing with ZMG, with a bit more experience.  It'd give us the required height to control the box.  Our quick FB's and Bombito could provide cover for ZMG's laborious runs. 

It almost feels like a back 4 is about picking the best stylistic match up, rather than the "better" player since all our CB's are fairly close in quality. 

Type of partner required 
ZMG - someone with speed.
miller- someone with aerially ability
Cornelius - pretty well rounded i would say? 
Mcnaughton - someone with speed? 
waterman and heibert - aerially, speed, leadership.... It feels like they are averagish everywhere so their partner will need to be quality. Vitoria could be that guy (if its the same vitoria we had during WCQ) if you have davies and laryea at FB. 
Bombito - experience/leadership and overall quality.

[Bison44]

26 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

By most accounts, Hiebert has really struggled in the second half of the season.

He was playing LB a lot but now they are playing newly aquired Markanich (natural LB) and Heibert has been sitting.  

[Bigandy]

Something interesting is the netherlands have van dijk and deligt who are much more comfortable as LCB even though they are right footed. I dont know many examples of left footed cbs who are more comfortable on the right. 

As of form right now, our best pairing would probably be miller and Cornelius but Kennedy was preferred on the right to both of them and he didnt look comfortable at all. 

[Shway]

Heibert is no for me dawg. 
He is as slow as ZMG, and doesn't have any aerial presence. 

If we're naming him, Zator, Waterman, and MacNaughton should have shouts.

[Ansem]

Damn... the disrespect for Zator lol

[Bigandy]

57 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Damn... the disrespect for Zator lol

 I like the guy, but in the gold cup he played like 2 minutes and conceded a PK and was caught in no mans land as his man ended up forcing an own goal.  It's harsh to penalize the guy but its hard to imagine subbing in the 90th in 2 games and conceding right after. 

However, its unfair to hold that against him forever. But as a RB he's quite a ways off from a CMNT. If hes not playing regularly at CB its hard to see how he gets the call up. To me, hes very similar to waterman. Not really great at anything and playing at a poorish level.

IMO He's the oldest CB (after vitoria) in our player pool, his ceiling is the lowest, he has a lack of experience (I wouldnt trust him at azteca), hes not consistently playing CB, poland is not a great level, he doesnt offer any complimentary skills to any of our other CB partners. 

Damn.....  zats didnt deserve that.

[Obinna]

I see Zator as a reliable and competent RB and CB option that in some ways reminds me of Heibert, just on the opposite side. And like Heibert, I just see him trucking along from here, as opposed to blowing anyones socks off.

If either of these guys get an extended run for Canada moving forward, it'll be because they are smart enough to keep it simple and play to their strengths. That in itself is valuable.