Feb 2 Event

[loyola]

Be it lack of funds or whatever, if they really tried, I'm sure they could do it. Work out something with a team from Asia.. you'd get solid attendance since there certainly isn't a lack of a Asian market in the area. I'm sure it's not easy but it's definitely not 6 year gap impossible.

Your an example of an Asian team just shows how others factors that the CSA doesn't control will come into the equation when scheduling a friendly. If you are flying to North America from Asia you are probably looking at more than one game. So, those have to be organized with others federation in the region. Also, there the question about having our players available at the same time as their players. I'm not sure how the Asian leagues calendars look like but this must be look at.

The only good time for a friendly in Vancouver is, IMO, in May or June just before the GC or the WCQ starts. But then again you have to look at where we are playing our group games or playing our WCQ next. The rest of the year we depend on FIFA dates and avaibility of the players so I would be extremely surprise to see a MNT game in Vancouver.

[smartlikefox]

Never said it was easy but they have to find a way to spread it out. As it is, I think they are coddling the players too much. Lets be honest, the chances of the team, as it is, qualifying for the WC aren't great. What happens in 2018 qualifying if they bomb out of the upcoming round? Yea, the best way to grow the game is to qualify for the WC, I won't argue that, we don't have the best odds as it stands.

Some people say well they are Canadian so they should support the team no matter what but it's not that simple. The average young soccer fan probably can't name more than 5 players on the National team if that. That's a problem. You can't expect everyone to latch on and support something if they don't know anything about the team. The CSA needs to be targetting this age group. They are the future fans and the ones they can milk to most money and support from going forward.

[ChrisB]

Never said it was easy but they have to find a way to spread it out. As it is, I think they are coddling the players too much. Lets be honest, the chances of the team, as it is, qualifying for the WC aren't great. What happens in 2018 qualifying if they bomb out of the upcoming round? Yea, the best way to grow the game is to qualify for the WC, I won't argue that, we don't have the best odds as it stands.

I disagree with this statement. I think this team has a pretty decent chance of qualifying (50/50) particularly if JDG2 joins the team in June. If they don't, then the CSA has to reassess the entire campaign - what will be a fact is that they won't be able to blame the pitch or the locations (and hopefully not the home support)

Some people say well they are Canadian so they should support the team no matter what but it's not that simple. The average young soccer fan probably can't name more than 5 players on the National team if that. That's a problem. You can't expect everyone to latch on and support something if they don't know anything about the team. The CSA needs to be targetting this age group. They are the future fans and the ones they can milk to most money and support from going forward.

This I agree with - it was going to CMT games that made me a more passionate fan when I was a kid. But I also went to 86er games. The two combined stoked my attitude for live football (and to be honest, MNT games sort of depressed me as a 12 year old because of the support for the away sides!). I think the CSA does need to find a way to get a friendly in the west in 2012. Even if they can just do a NA based squad...

[Cheeta]

Where you stand on the issue of venue location seems to have a lot to do with where you sit as it were.

No chance of Winnipeg getting any Qualifiers so financially it doesn't really matter to me whether or not the matches are played in Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal. It's going to cost me more or less about the same to fly to any of those cities.

But I agree 100% that BMO Field is the place to be this round, and in all likely hood most of The Hex if we win through. The Toronto lads have done a fantastic job of organizing the various supporters groups and sundry under a V's umbrella, on a scale unlike anything we've seen anywhere else (at least in my memory). And they're only going to get better at it and we stronger because of it. I'm not willing to trade away that advantage for any reason at this point.

Winning will promote the team to Canadians from coast to coast to coast. BMO Field raucous, passionate and painted red will promote the team. And if we make The Hex I firmly believe it's a whole new game for us in the footie community in this country. Even in the cities which didn't get to host a Qualifier.

[Grizzly]

I am obviously personally disappointed that we are not getting a game in Montreal. However, I expect there are good reasons for this and probably not those that have been mentioned. The stadium may be behind schedule but it will certainly be finished by the time of the later two games. However, I suspect that the reason Montreal has not been chosen is that there will be a new pitch in the stadium and that is always a dicey affair as one remembers from the previous WCQ played in the first year of Stade Saputo. A pitch needs to settle and the grass needs to set its roots which may or may not occur in the first year of a pitch depending a lot on the weather. A WCQ is not the time to discover that the pitch in a stadium is in bad condition, especially against teams that are our equal or inferior to us. The old pitch was completely ripped out. Here is a picture:

That being said I do think they should try to move the games around somewhat if it will not create problems for the team or players. However, the BC crowd seems to totally ignore the fact that their stadium does not have an acceptable pitch for WCQ games. Edmonton's no longer does either but the posters from there also seem to recognize that. It is not the fault of Toronto or anywhere else in Canada that your city turned down a grass stadium that would be privately funded and then decided to waste hundreds of millions on refurbishing a white elephant stadium with an artificial pitch so it could host CFL, concerts and trade shows. So before you yell at Toronto you should look in the mirror and see who caused the problem. Yes the pitch is FIFA approved but the players hate it. I think they should tell the players they have to play on it for a meaningless friendly but not for a WCQ in which the result is crucial. Meaningless friendlies should be spread around the country as much as possible but friendlies like the US one that are before a crucial match absolutely need to be held in the same city and stadium as the crucial match.

The west also has a geographical disadvantage for games that can not be defeated until MLS improves to such a level that most of our best players are playing in North America. We can not force our players to make bigger time zone changes than our opponents players and expect to win. We can not send players from Europe to Vancouver when our opponents players are coming from Honduras or Costa Rica. If we are playing two games in one FIFA break and the first is in Central America, that would be a good time to play in Vancouver when you get a decent grass stadium. Flying from Cuba to Vancouver would be the utmost in stupidity.

I am also in favour of playing in Moncton but WCQ is not the time to try out a new city and stadium. First they should play a friendly there. If that is a big success then it should be in the mix for getting a WCQ game.

I am not happy that the MNT will only be playing in Toronto for the next round but given the circumstances it was probably the only option if we put advancing to the next round as the main priority. And that should be the main priority not regional pettiness and the attitude "Who cares about qualifying, I want the team to come to me."

[Grizzly]

Speaking of the time difference, I am sure we all remember the famous Jazic backpass against Honduras in Edmonton in 2004. It should also be remembered that he was playing in Russia at the time. I wonder how many hours his flight to Edmonton was. Pretty big time zone change from Krasnodar to Edmonton also. Mistakes are made in football without travel and time zone changes but you can be pretty sure that more are made when those are factors. One bad mistake like that can screw up our WCQ chances. Jazic had played pretty well up to then but was probably still a bit on Krasnodar time, ie. he made that mistake about 7 am Krasnodar time after staying up all night. Maybe he still would have made it otherwise but we need to maximize the mental alertness of our players.

[paul-collins]

So the logical extension of this is that when Vancouver gets to host a WCQ, kickoff has to be 10am or earlier?

[gator]

Speaking of the time difference, I am sure we all remember the famous Jazic backpass against Honduras in Edmonton in 2004. It should also be remembered that he was playing in Russia at the time. I wonder how many hours his flight to Edmonton was. Pretty big time zone change from Krasnodar to Edmonton also. Mistakes are made in football without travel and time zone changes but you can be pretty sure that more are made when those are factors. One bad mistake like that can screw up our WCQ chances. Jazic had played pretty well up to then but was probably still a bit on Krasnodar time, ie. he made that mistake about 7 am Krasnodar time after staying up all night. Maybe he still would have made it otherwise but we need to maximize the mental alertness of our players.

How can we forget that back pass? He was playing so well up to that point and I've never really known about the time of day perhaps being a factor in the error! We still should have won that match as that was never a penalty for them and we had a perfectly fine winner negated by a phantom call!

[alberta white]

So the logical extension of this is that when Vancouver gets to host a WCQ, kickoff has to be 10am or earlier?

We'll it'll stop the casuals getting drunk and wrecking the place.

Thats a Joke and I retract it immediatley!...sorry

[Gordon]

Speaking of the time difference, I am sure we all remember the famous Jazic backpass against Honduras in Edmonton in 2004. It should also be remembered that he was playing in Russia at the time. I wonder how many hours his flight to Edmonton was. Pretty big time zone change from Krasnodar to Edmonton also. Mistakes are made in football without travel and time zone changes but you can be pretty sure that more are made when those are factors. One bad mistake like that can screw up our WCQ chances. Jazic had played pretty well up to then but was probably still a bit on Krasnodar time, ie. he made that mistake about 7 am Krasnodar time after staying up all night. Maybe he still would have made it otherwise but we need to maximize the mental alertness of our players.

The biggest factor was probably the pitch. Where he was standing to initiate the backpass was pretty chewed up from pointy ball and was closer to mud than grass. The time zone thing may or may not have had a role in it but the most likely culprit was the pitch and more generally the lack of infrastructure at the time, as I know I was quite dissapointed in the quality of the pitch when I arrived at the stadium for the game. Always felt bad for Jazic as he took a lot of stick for the pass, and really, on a normal pitch, he probably would have been fine.

Not advocating on the location of games with this post, just posting an observation relative to the event mentioned. I have spoke before in favour of having all of the games in Toronto this go around, and haven't changed my mind about that.

[Guest Ed]

I agree wholeheartedly with Cheeta.

[ddoouugg]

Grizz good points but it's not our local government who has blocked the stadium it's the federal government who has put it on hold.

(and that's where the conspiracy theories come into place where Vancouver would have had the premier soccer stadium in Canada but the CSA fast tracked a stadium in Toronto and the Federal govt. blocked the stadium)

although now that they have put the money into BC Place they might not be as helpful in the future.

[Free kick]

Grizz good points but it's not our local government who has blocked the stadium it's the federal government who has put it on hold.

(and that's where the conspiracy theories come into place where Vancouver would have had the premier soccer stadium in Canada but the CSA fast tracked a stadium in Toronto and the Federal govt. blocked the stadium)

although now that they have put the money into BC Place they might not be as helpful in the future.

No, it WAS your local government(s) who blocked the construction of the SSS. Its not the fault of Ottawa (and its axis of evil which includes Toronto) as to why there is no soccer specific stadium in your city. Kerfoot and the Whitecaps wanted to build their own soccer specific stadium but the city authorities forced a solution on them (or would not approve the the construction of an SSS) that meant renovating BC place. The only link to the FEDS is a very tenous one and it is that one of the sites that was under consideration was a port lands site that was owned by the federal govenmrent.

Those views (ie.: "Vancouver would have had the premier soccer stadium in Canada but the CSA fast tracked a stadium in Toronto and the Federal govt. blocked the stadium") twist the facts and events much like the strories Sasquatch sightings. More than likely, they stem from ulterior regional motives and beliefs about our country. In the end, it cost more to renovate BC place than it did build Red Bull Arena ( a splendid 30K seat SSS) in a region of the world where there lies the most expense real estate. And what did the Whitecaps get in the end? a CFL stadium and (for soccer) stands coverred with drapes.

BMO field was built four years before the whitecaps ever entered MLS. long before stadium solutions for the whitecaps were evn pondered.

[matthew]

I remember there being a large sign outside of Commonwealth that read: "home of Canada's national soccer teams". Was it not four years ago that the players were raving about how great the grass surface at Saputo was and how intimate it was and how they liked the short flight into Montreal and wanted to play there as much as possible? And Toronto had Field Turf and a fear that any major opponent would out-draw the home side in the GTA? Or Victoria getting the majority of the games in the 86 cycle and Vancouver getting the most in 94 (and 90, though it was game singular). Then Edmonton was the new black and then Winnipeg got a two games and a pre-WCQ friendly after a nice job of hosting the Pan Am Games and so the prairies got most of the games . . .

I've been to qualifiers in five provinces over the years. History has shown that the host venues have been pretty cyclical. I would love to be able to drive to a qualifier or be able to go to one without booking a handful of days off of work. But that's not realistic for where I live. So I go as often as I can.

I've never felt the CSA has done much based on appeasing supporters, but as long as their decisions are logical and benefit the national team then I have no complaints. I have no complaints about this . . .

cheers,

matthew

[smartlikefox]

Still don't buy the timezone argument.. with a proper training camp before hand it's a moot point imo.

With say 5 days of preparation for professional athletes coming in from Europe, I hardly think that the extra difference from Toronto to Edmonton or Vancouver or whatever is really that much different. Really, that argument means every game should be played on the east coast.

There are certainly other factors at play no doubt, but I don't believe in the time zone argument at all.

[nfitz]

BMO field was built four years before the whitecaps ever entered MLS. long before stadium solutions for the whitecaps were evn pondered.

And yet it's quick to find media articles about the planning for (well, mostly arguing about) the Whitecaps Waterfront stadium from before BMO Field was even constructed - http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=7eb98936-390d-47ed-abec-44dcc96c3091&k=3823

[loyola]

Still don't buy the timezone argument.. with a proper training camp before hand it's a moot point imo.

With say 5 days of preparation for professional athletes coming in from Europe, I hardly think that the extra difference from Toronto to Edmonton or Vancouver or whatever is really that much different. Really, that argument means every game should be played on the east coast.

There are certainly other factors at play no doubt, but I don't believe in the time zone argument at all.

Is being a professional athlete means you are better trained to deal with 9-11 hours time zone change?

The time zone is clearly something that will affect human being to different extent, pro athlete or not. Playing on the East coast gives the team less travelling and 3 hours less of timezone. This means it will probably take less time for the players to recover from the travelling.

Maybe not a crucial factor but sometime little details will be the difference between a win and a tie.

[BuzzAndSting]

Is being a professional athlete means you are better trained to deal with 9-11 hours time zone change?

The time zone is clearly something that will affect human being to different extent, pro athlete or not. Playing on the East coast gives the team less travelling and 3 hours less of timezone. This means it will probably take less time for the players to recover from the travelling.

Maybe not a crucial factor but sometime little details will be the difference between a win and a tie.

Except playing on the east coasts limits travel in terms of flights in and out of any given city.

[smartlikefox]

Is being a professional athlete means you are better trained to deal with 9-11 hours time zone change?

The time zone is clearly something that will affect human being to different extent, pro athlete or not. Playing on the East coast gives the team less travelling and 3 hours less of timezone. This means it will probably take less time for the players to recover from the travelling.

Maybe not a crucial factor but sometime little details will be the difference between a win and a tie.

A proper training camp should eliminate that entirely though. Yea, if you do that and have to play 48 hours later that's going to cause some issues no doubt. After 5-7 days though, it really shouldn't have any more of an effect than playing in TO.

Really goes to show the benefit of having players playing good minutes in NA though. Then you can just forget this whole time argument.

[loyola]

Except playing on the east coasts limits travel in terms of flights in and out of any given city.

That's what I was saying

[loyola]

A proper training camp should eliminate that entirely though. Yea, if you do that and have to play 48 hours later that's going to cause some issues no doubt. After 5-7 days though, it really shouldn't have any more of an effect than playing in TO.

Really goes to show the benefit of having players playing good minutes in NA though. Then you can just forget this whole time argument.

I'm not sure we'll have the luxury of 5-7 days training camp for the fall games. The game are played on friday in September and October and unless I'm mistaken clubs are playing on the week end prior to that. So that means some players will arrive in Toronto the Monday.

[BuzzAndSting]

That's what I was saying

Just retread your post and it makes more sense to me now. Sorry.

[paul-collins]

I'm not sure we'll have the luxury of 5-7 days training camp for the fall games. The game are played on friday in September and October and unless I'm mistaken clubs are playing on the week end prior to that. So that means some players will arrive in Toronto the Monday.

This.

Going from Europe to BC is 9h, or 50% more difference than the 6h to the Eastern time zone (Montreal / Ottawa / Toronto).

For us mere mortals, ballpark, it takes a day to move your jetlag 1h. Perhaps the pros can get their circaedian rhythms synced faster, I don't know - but if they don't get their sleep right, their reactions will be off. And our opponents, who have no significant time adjustments to make, will feast on those misses.

If a camp can be scheduled that is long enough to acclimate, then go for it. Once there's grass.

[Keegan]

This.

Going from Europe to BC is 9h, or 50% more difference than the 6h to the Eastern time zone (Montreal / Ottawa / Toronto).

For us mere mortals, ballpark, it takes a day to move your jetlag 1h. Perhaps the pros can get their circaedian rhythms synced faster, I don't know - but if they don't get their sleep right, their reactions will be off. And our opponents, who have no significant time adjustments to make, will feast on those misses.

If a camp can be scheduled that is long enough to acclimate, then go for it. Once there's grass.

+1 the point about our opponents is one that many overlook. If we are playing Honduras/Panama out west we are doing them a favour.

[Gordon]

This.

Going from Europe to BC is 9h, or 50% more difference than the 6h to the Eastern time zone (Montreal / Ottawa / Toronto).

For us mere mortals, ballpark, it takes a day to move your jetlag 1h. Perhaps the pros can get their circaedian rhythms synced faster, I don't know - but if they don't get their sleep right, their reactions will be off. And our opponents, who have no significant time adjustments to make, will feast on those misses.

If a camp can be scheduled that is long enough to acclimate, then go for it. Once there's grass.

Not disagreeing with the general sentiment at all, just playing to semantics, since it will be important to others. The difference between Vancouver and Toronto in flying from Europe is two hours - assuming direct of course. Has to do with flight plans using the curvature of the planet and the route airlines take to minimize fuel use (costs).

Honduras has about as many players in Europe as we do, and a few in China, so travel would be a wash for that game. I think that on both sides of the argument a lot of things are tossed about as important that really have no significant bearing. The travel issue is circumstantial more meaningful in some instances than in others, but ultimately, the reasons to favour Toronto are compelling and at this point in time, outweigh the reasons not to.

Make no mistake, all of the opponents we play - in both the semi and the hex if we get there - would, given their druthers, choose to play their away games in Toronto too. But ultimately, you do what you have to do to have the best chance to win. Right now, that is playing in Toronto IMO. So I believe it is a good choice by Hart.