WCQ Location Predictions

[Lord Bob]

The players don't want it. The flights are all 4-5 hrs longer,

Because opposing players travel by teleporter.

they will be more jetlagged when they get back to their clubs

Because managers hate players who represent Canada and love those who represent Honduras

and they don't want to play on an artificial surface.

Because when the opposing team walks on turf, grass magically sprouts beneath their feet.

EDIT: Of course all the games will be in Toronto. I hear that when Mont Pete learned the Women's Olympic qualifiers were being helped in Vancouver it took an intern four hours with a map to explain what "Vancouver" is.

[ted]

The flights are all 4-5 hrs longer...

Pretty sure we already had a long rebuttal of that "fact". Flying Vancouver to London or Amsterdam is 2hrs more than to the same destinations from Toronto. 9hrs vs 7hrs. Not that big a deal.

[betterredthandead]

all in Toronto because it is the centre of the known universe. BC Place has the ability to have grass I've been told, but doubt they would want to spend the time, or cash for a national team game.

[Sam]

Because managers hate players who represent Canada and love those who represent Honduras

Why do we care about how opponents get on with their managers? We want our Canadians to get as much playing time with their clubs as possible. Are you suggesting we forgo that playing time in order to ensure Hondurans lose playing times as well?

Because when the opposing team walks on turf, grass magically sprouts beneath their feet.

Our players have said in the past they don't like playing on artificial turf. Let's listen to them and make home field advantage the best for THEM we can possibly make it.

Listen to the Patrice Bernier interview on SCG from a week or two ago. He essentially says it is easier for the players (ie. they would prefer) to play on the east cost/central Canada.

[Lord Bob]

Players, bluntly, are undereducated superstitious people, the most vocal of who have a habit of blaming anyone but themselves for a team's failings. In most fields, the "gut instincts" of people trained since they were ten to kick a ball has been discarded in favour of reason and science. In soccer, it is apparently considered the natural order of things that, when a player skins his knee on grass, he says "aah my knee", then he does the same thing on artificial turf and says "aah this turf".

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Players, bluntly, are undereducated superstitious people, the most vocal of who have a habit of blaming anyone but themselves for a team's failings. In most fields, the "gut instincts" of people trained since they were ten to kick a ball has been discarded in favour of reason and science. In soccer, it is apparently considered the natural order of things that, when a player skins his knee on grass, he says "aah my knee", then he does the same thing on artificial turf and says "aah this turf".

Funny, harsh and only occasionally true.

[jonovision]

Jetlag is not a valid reason that the June 12 Honduras match couldn't be in a Western city. The team plays in Cuba on June 8; adjusting to MT or PT for the 12th would be trivial.

In addition, there should be no concerns about players returning tired to Euro clubs as all but Scandinavian teams will be out of season.

[RJB]

I'll be shocked if all matches are not played at the National Stadium... I mean BMO Field.

[Obinna]

Jetlag is not a valid reason that the June 12 Honduras match couldn't be in a Western city. The team plays in Cuba on June 8; adjusting to MT or PT for the 12th would be trivial.

In addition, there should be no concerns about players returning tired to Euro clubs as all but Scandinavian teams will be out of season.

Those are two very good points. How is the new winnipeg stadium comming along? I doubt it would be finished but if it were that would be an awesome location for the game against honduras. Peg would probably have a pro-canadian crowd but I believe it would be on turf right?

[Obinna]

all in Toronto because it is the centre of the known universe. BC Place has the ability to have grass I've been told, but doubt they would want to spend the time, or cash for a national team game.

Despite the fact that the BC posters have such an issue with Toronto, as evidenced by your comment, I have to say that BC place would be a pretty good option for the Honduras game. Successful MLS market, very small Honduran population, best possible field turf surface. My only concern would be Hondurans driving up from Seattle and Portland (is there a significant Honduran population in those cities?).

Also, something that hasn't been mentioned about BC place is the capacity. I think we could get 35,000 or 40,000 in there for a qualifier, especially if the Women are successful in there qualifying... Perhaps momentum would carry over.

[Califax]

Again, I'll dodge the anti-Vancouver rhetoric, except to say, yes, we notice you. At the end of the day, I really don't think one city has a huge edge over the other in filling a stadium. Short of any meaningful TV promotion, the stadiums will likely be empty.

More than location, if the CSA could carpet bomb soccercentral and sportsnet.ca with ads promoting the games, I think it will do more to get people out in which ever city they choose. I'm hoping that if Toronto is on the hook for these home games, the TFC Galaxy tilt can light a fire under the casual soccer fan that we can parlay into ticket sales.

[Lord Bob]

Again, I'll dodge the anti-Vancouver rhetoric, except to say, yes, we notice you. At the end of the day, I really don't think one city has a huge edge over the other in filling a stadium. Short of any meaningful TV promotion, the stadiums will likely be empty.

I agree with the first half of that, unless we're talking about places like Moose Jaw.

[Califax]

I agree with the first half of that, unless we're talking about places like Moose Jaw.

The Jaw would sound intimidating to Hondurans, til like 4 dudes showed up. I worry about apathy if all games are in one spot. It's going to be far cheaper on my wallet to have them in Toronto, but I'd much prefer i going into debt booking flights to Vancouver then not see the lads in the Hex

[Gordon]

I support having all the WCQs in Toronto. I think most of the alleged "reasons" to prefer Toronto over other city's have been reasonably refuted. But there is still one factor that comes into play for me. Lord Bob has written earlier of our players habit of blaming anyone but themselves for defeat and I think there is considerable truth to this. This is in fact a hugely common situation in society in generally, and self-deception is something that all of us, including the most self aware, struggle to contain. Playing in Toronto addresses - as in "eliminates" - the player's "excuses". It mitigates the travel excuse, it eliminates the turf excuse, it eliminates the unfamiliar stadium excuse, and it eliminates the "its like playing away" (aside from the National anthem and a small contingent of Jamaican fans, the crowd in TO was vocally a home crowd) excuse. I am firmly of the belief that, for the most part, our national team ends up being less than the sum of its parts when the games start to get meaningful. I believe this dysfunction stems the lack of accountability (who is truely at risk of losing their place in the side) and the presence of ready excuses (augmented the presence of real personal sacrifices the players do have to make) allows players generally to rationalize and not take ownership of the results. Eliminating the excuses is the first step.

Now, I attend all western based qualifiers, and will be lucky to get to even one Toronto based encounter, but I think Toronto is where they have to be.

[The Beaver]

.. very small Honduran population, best possible field turf surface. My only concern would be Hondurans driving up from Seattle and Portland (is there a significant Honduran population in those cities?).

The Hondu population in Vancouver is actually quite significant. Mostly they are crack dealers--sadly, this is too true--but drug peddlers love their football just as much as the rest of us. There will be a large Hondu turnout if the game is played here. I still want the game to be played here, mind you, but let's not pretend that we'll out number the Hondu fans. Very naive, I'm afraid.

[Joe MacCarthy]

How is the new winnipeg stadium comming along? I doubt it would be finished but if it were that would be an awesome location for the game against honduras. Peg would probably have a pro-canadian crowd but I believe it would be on turf right?

No, Winnipeg will have an artificial surface. Should be ready by August (at latest) or hopefully the start of the CFL season.

[Gordon]

The Hondu population in Vancouver is actually quite significant. Mostly they are crack dealers--sadly, this is too true--but drug peddlers love their football just as much as the rest of us. There will be a large Hondu turnout if the game is played here. I still want the game to be played here, mind you, but let's not pretend that we'll out number the Hondu fans. Very naive, I'm afraid.

I know when you say "we" won't outnumber you mean organized and vocal support. I've never been to a game where the crowd as a whole was not pro canadian, but unfortunately, most are quietly doing so, allowing the always vocal supporters from the other nation to make the crowd sound "pro-opposition". The real feat of the Jamaica WCQ, was not so much the size of our organized support (which was great compared to previous years), but the denial of access to the game by opposition support. While I don't doubt Vancouver now has the organization to at least approach what Toronto did in 2008, the reality is unless the game is played in Swangard there will still be a largish, vocal group supporting the bad guys.

[betterredthandead]

The Hondu population in Vancouver is actually quite significant. Mostly they are crack dealers--sadly, this is too true--but drug peddlers love their football just as much as the rest of us. There will be a large Hondu turnout if the game is played here. I still want the game to be played here, mind you, but let's not pretend that we'll out number the Hondu fans. Very naive, I'm afraid.

What a foolish and racist post.

Despite the fact that the BC posters have such an issue with Toronto, as evidenced by your comment, I have to say that BC place would be a pretty good option for the Honduras game. Successful MLS market, very small Honduran population, best possible field turf surface. My only concern would be Hondurans driving up from Seattle and Portland (is there a significant Honduran population in those cities?).

Also, something that hasn't been mentioned about BC place is the capacity. I think we could get 35,000 or 40,000 in there for a qualifier, especially if the Women are successful in there qualifying... Perhaps momentum would carry over.

I don't have an issue with the games being in Toronto. Everyone knows that Toronto is the centre of the known universe! But, in all seriousness they have the best football (non cfl type anyway) stadium in Canada and until there are other viable options all games should be played there.

[Admin]

vs. Honduras - Toronto

vs. Panama - Toronto

vs. Cuba - Montreal

This is coming from a Sask guy, so please contain your claims of bias. Hart stated last year that he's going to put the games in the places where he believes the crowd can be the most pro-Canadian, which doesn't take Vancouver or Edmonton out of the equation. What does take them out of the equation is his other statement of doing what the players want when it comes to location, which leads me to believe all games will be out east. Perhaps Panama or Cuba get a Maritimes location (just for Squizz - MONCTON!), which would be pretty sweet. I'd vote for Cuba to be in Moncton to give a game out way east, and to also give most of us on here a location we've never been to for a MNT match.

This is most likely.

Vancouver will get a centennial friendly at BC Place.

That's what I would bet on.

[Blackdude]

My guess: Honduras: Vancouver

Panama: Toronto

Cuba : Montreal (maybe Toronto)

If there's one game in Vancouver, it is Honduras for multiple reasons, traveling will be less an issue and most players won't have a problem because they won't have a game played 4 days later. I know how people feel about Honduras that it should be in Toronto, because it's Honduras, but, let's give one game to Lord Bob to show how many people can cheer Canada at BC Place.

[Admin]

My guess: Honduras: Vancouver

Panama: Toronto

Cuba : Montreal (maybe Toronto)

If there's one game in Vancouver, it is Honduras for multiple reasons, traveling will be less an issue and most players won't have a problem because they won't have a game played 4 days later. I know how people feel about Honduras that it should be in Toronto, because it's Honduras, but, let's give one game to Lord Bob to show how many people can cheer Canada at BC Place.

The response by Vancouver fans for a Canada game would be good. That isn't the issue. Unless they are going to pony up for grass at BC place, or play Cuba or Panama at Swangaurd which is not a bad idea it's just not going to happen.

Two of the games will be in Toronto. I would be surprised if that is not the case. The only question is where is the third.

With a newly renovated stadium going into operation and a new MLS team on the pitch... It's going to be Montreal. The only other place is Moncton... and maybe, just maybe Squizz will be triumphant!

[jonovision]

Given past performances and occurrences, wouldn't it be in the best interest of the team to choose whichever city has the worst nightlife?

[Obinna]

The Hondu population in Vancouver is actually quite significant. Mostly they are crack dealers--sadly, this is too true--but drug peddlers love their football just as much as the rest of us. There will be a large Hondu turnout if the game is played here. I still want the game to be played here, mind you, but let's not pretend that we'll out number the Hondu fans. Very naive, I'm afraid.

Very interesting. If Vancouver does have a significant population I would not like to see the game out in BC.

[Obinna]

What a foolish and racist post.

I don't have an issue with the games being in Toronto. Everyone knows that Toronto is the centre of the known universe! But, in all seriousness they have the best football (non cfl type anyway) stadium in Canada and until there are other viable options all games should be played there.

Understandable, and my apologies for targeting your comment in particular. It just happened to be the most recent one out of the lot.

[Obinna]

I know when you say "we" won't outnumber you mean organized and vocal support. I've never been to a game where the crowd as a whole was not pro canadian, but unfortunately, most are quietly doing so, allowing the always vocal supporters from the other nation to make the crowd sound "pro-opposition". The real feat of the Jamaica WCQ, was not so much the size of our organized support (which was great compared to previous years), but the denial of access to the game by opposition support. While I don't doubt Vancouver now has the organization to at least approach what Toronto did in 2008, the reality is unless the game is played in Swangard there will still be a largish, vocal group supporting the bad guys.

Good point Gordon. It doesn't matter what city it is in, as long as Voyageurs work together to deny the opposition access. Perhaps Toronto was a success last cycle because the Voyageurs presence is very large?