The new D3 league(s)

[Juby]

CSL are sanctioned by the CSA, while L1O are sanctioned by the OSA so both can easily run in parallel in sanctioning terms. The study into the future of pro soccer that was commissioned by the CSA are recommending a D3 U-23 focus rather than D2 so it remains to be seen whether the CSA will move in that direction and what implications that would have for the CSL.

A recent It's Called Football podcast is worth a listen on that because one of the people who was involved in the study,

Richard Whittall, really spills the beans on how things unfolded on that

:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?2898-It-s-Called-Football-Guest-Richard-Whittall

{14:00 onwards if people want to avoid the filler content at the beginning}

SPILLS THE BEANS? Were you just hoping everyone would take your word and not actually listen to the interview??? You are a disgusting little liar. Right here is perfect proof:

Now for months, most of us were talking about a regional 'd-3' league and build up on that. Whenever you'd hear that your'd ramble on for hours argueing against a NASL like D-2 because you didn't actually have a point, you were just trying to waste everyone`s time.

Now, what it actually says: Like everyone already knew, were probably not ready for a fully national division, the trend has been to work towards a nationally organized regional d-3 (which was obvious to everyone who wasn`t just trying to waste peoples time) and that is actually going towards PHASE II (hurrah!).

Now when you see `spill the beans`, your clearly implying that you were proven right about something, but your proof outlined almost exactly the same plan I was advocating over two years ago! Remember me talking about making a league with 6 divisions (BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan, Manitoba and N Ontario, S Ontario, Quebec, the Maritimes. From their we`d build up until 6 regional semi pro leagues might be able to combine their top teams nationally. Sound Familiar, well besides other people with the same idea, it`s initial phases are similar to the initial phases Mr....Whittal was talking about, in this interview.

How long can Blizzard change his opinions with the wind, dishonestly slander whole institutions, and flat out try and lie before he`s blocked as a troll

[kodiakTFC]

SPILLS THE BEANS? Were you just hoping everyone would take your word and not actually listen to the interview??? You are a disgusting little liar. Right here is perfect proof:

Now for months, most of us were talking about a regional 'd-3' league and build up on that. Whenever you'd hear that your'd ramble on for hours argueing against a NASL like D-2 because you didn't actually have a point, you were just trying to waste everyone`s time.

Now, what it actually says: Like everyone already knew, were probably not ready for a fully national division, the trend has been to work towards a nationally organized regional d-3 (which was obvious to everyone who wasn`t just trying to waste peoples time) and that is actually going towards PHASE II (hurrah!).

Now when you see `spill the beans`, your clearly implying that you were proven right about something, but your proof outlined almost exactly the same plan I was advocating over two years ago! Remember me talking about making a league with 6 divisions (BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan, Manitoba and N Ontario, S Ontario, Quebec, the Maritimes. From their we`d build up until 6 regional semi pro leagues might be able to combine their top teams nationally. Sound Familiar, well besides other people with the same idea, it`s initial phases are similar to the initial phases Mr....Whittal was talking about, in this interview.

How long can Blizzard change his opinions with the wind, dishonestly slander whole institutions, and flat out try and lie before he`s blocked as a troll

The hostility between you two has grown tiresome. Get over it, speak to each other through PMs and treat each other with a morsel of respect and maybe your little feud will taper off. Its become so heated that you're misreading and putting words into his mouth. By spill the beans he clearly means that Richard told the ICF audience what the study results were with no clear implications of his own.

At this point your both trolling but its only one another because we've all given up listening to your shenanigans.

[Juby]

The hostility between you two has grown tiresome. Get over it, speak to each other through PMs and treat each other with a morsel of respect and maybe your little feud will taper off. Its become so heated that you're misreading and putting words into his mouth. By spill the beans he clearly means that Richard told the ICF audience what the study results were with no clear implications of his own.

At this point your both trolling but its only one another because we've all given up listening to your shenanigans.

For a second I had thought maybe I had overreacted to the 'spill the beans' comment but I re-read it and the past tense clearly shows he's implying the study is over , their isn't the vaguest mention of the fact that the study is continuing, that their may be more to be excited about and generally 'spilled the beans' isn't exactly a good verb for him to actually be admitting he might have egg on his fact.

No, I'll take full on blame for getting too worked up, but I don't go around making **** up. It's completely unacceptable to have to sort through blatant lies meant to mislead, he literally falsely used someone elses words to mislead assuming everyone was too lazy to fact check. I literally don't go around jumping on every single post indiscriminate of it's content, I react to blatant lieing, he however goes around rehashing his old crap indiscriminantly based on the mere mentions of the CSL, a D-3 or a D-2, he is acting like a troll, If your sick of me being annoyed, well maybe I'm sick of having to sift through threads being bogged down by a dishonest troll. I'm reacting to a troll (fact checking, correcting) not a troll (making things up, forcing a negative narrative). I know I can be annoying but going back to having bbtb make falsely refrenced nonsense points to everyone who dares talk about the CSL, the Study or any other topics so no thread can go more then a page without getting bogged down by illogical and dishonesnt timewasting arguements.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The hostility between you two has grown tiresome....

Two? Any hostility is coming from only one poster. If you find juby's posts tiresome I suggest you do what I did and put him on ignore. Anything beyond that is a job for the moderators.

[Juby]

Two? Any hostility is coming from only one poster. If you find juby's posts tiresome I suggest you do what I did and put him on ignore. Anything beyond that is a job for the moderators.

Blatantly lieing is pretty damn passive aggressive, also known as 'chicken **** hostile', Are you saying your not baiting people by actively lieing about them? (stupid much?). Also, you've proven in the past you don't actually ignore me, quite a few times you have responded to points in my posts referring to 'all the people who say' even though I'm the only one who said it, aha. Everyone knows this, he just thinks if he doesn't admit it, he's being consistant, I may be annoying but he's absolutely pathetic.

Let me give you example, Let's say I take a link for a USL league and imply that their packing it in, even though the link doesn't say that at all. Am I not baiting arguements (asking for people to get defensive and correct me) by spreading false information about a league? (IF SOMEONE LIE'S ABOUT YOU, IS THAT NOT STARTING ****?) If I said, the conservative party did this fact and rumour I made up, am I not just asking for a conservative to stand up for themselves.

Seriously, since I'm apparantly the more intolerable, maybe I should start acting like bbtb and tell a bunch of blatant lies about the PDL to try and make points for the CSL, apparently it's okay when bbtb does it. Then everything will be fine right? Will CSL threads that are largely negative fiction suddenly make sense if PDL threads become largely negative fiction?

I'm really getting tempted to do this, and what the hell can you guys do if you already determined it was okay when bbtb does it? Why should this forum be completely useless for CSL fans because of a childish PDL fan who can't tolerate dissenting views (keep in mind I keep my views in CSL threads i support, not pdl threads I oppose, I don't focus on pdl issues until someone brings them into CSL/The study/D-3 threads. PDL fans do not suffer any harassment in their threads so why are lies, slander and bull**** acceptable in any domestic league thread? (because bbtb is a troll)

You should all know I'm serious, I am very close to opening an account called 'notjuby' to take some of the stupider things bbtb has said, except put it against the pdl and smack dab in the middle of their threads. It'd be hugely annoying but maybe PDL fans will realise that behaviour isn't even acceptable in the CSL threads either and start correcting bbtb simply if he's lieing, not depending on what side of the issue he's lieing for

[ThiKu]

I used to be really interested in this topic....

[esham83]

i swear anytime one of those guys start typing i just gaze over its so tiresome

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

I never respond to juby's posts so don't drag me into this. If you have a problem with his posting style and for whatever reason are unable to use the ignore list so you don't see his posts any more why not take it up with the moderators in the appropriate subforum rather than posting off-topic material here?

[Juby]

I never respond to juby's posts so don't drag me into this. If you have a problem with his posting style and for whatever reason are unable to use the ignore list so you don't see his posts any more why not take it up with the moderators in the appropriate subforum rather than posting off-topic material here?

I know he won't respond without saying 'to all the people blah blah blah' so I'll try and be short: You dishonestly spew nonsense/mislead and act like a victim when your facts are called into question. No one's holding a gun to your head telling you to be dishonest, if you don't like the corrections, STOP FIBBING. It's like lighting fires and complaining about the debris. You've been directly told things in the past and then you conviently forget the facts to waste peoples time with foolish 'points'. What's worse is when we ignore his super 'too arrogant to explain' posts, new people begin repeating the dumbest points (like 'whats so special about paying someone?' or the people who seem to have opinions before they've even seen a bloody game)

I'd be fine with the moderators stepping in, blocking both of us would at least let people who want to talk about a handful of topics he trolls, actually talk... You guys shouldn't have to sift through my corrections, but I should not have to sift through lies. Both are annoying but at least I'm not being dishonest or misleading and I'm not the one trying to piss on the few soccer institutions we have, generally I like to talk about building, everyone knows that

btw bbtb, your hardly ever on topic, your links are often unrelated (how many times have you posted a link to get on your soap box, just for us to find out your link was old/reposted/unrelated), so why are you complaining about that? How often we have to get you stop talking about american leagues in domestic league talks?

[ThiKu]

BBTB - the 2 comments just prior to your last one were very much on topic. Kodiak's was spot-on as well. Didn't see anyone point there finger at one or the other....well, I guess Kodiak singled you both out....but fairly!

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

What is worth noting in

Richard Whittall's interview is that the report commissioned by the CSA is basically recommending a Canadian version of PDL, which is what I suggested could be done on here and that there apparently was a near universal belief amongst people involved in the sport that a national D2 was not viable. I was characterized as being some sort of weird crank for arguing that on here by several posters but it turns out it is actually very much the mainstream opinion.

[Redcoatsforever]

What is worth noting in

Richard Whittall's interview is that the report commissioned by the CSA is basically recommending a Canadian version of PDL, which is what I suggested could be done on here and that there apparently was a near universal belief amongst people involved in the sport that a national D2 was not viable. I was characterized as being some sort of weird crank for arguing that on here by several posters but it turns out it is actually very much the mainstream opinion.

I think in this context the difference between PDL and USLPRO is negligible. We could have a regional D3 in Canada that isn't necessarily U23.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Think there are four options in the report and the option that is being recommended revolves around having a U-23 developmental focus. That's closer to what L1O appear to be planning (although there it's more a U-20 thing) than the CSL approach. Have seen nothing about the CSA giving them the go ahead to proceed with phase two, however, so maybe this is destined to gather dust on a shelf like the KPMG report did.

[Juby]

What is worth noting in

Richard Whittall's interview is that the report commissioned by the CSA is basically recommending a Canadian version of PDL, which is what I suggested could be done on here and that there apparently was a near universal belief amongst people involved in the sport that a national D2 was not viable. I was characterized as being some sort of weird crank for arguing that on here by several posters but it turns out it is actually very much the mainstream opinion.

haha, your pdl fiefdom idea was just a rip off of everyone elses idea except with you insisting that it be in an american league and remain amateur (literally it was 'hitch our wagons to the americans!'). Your just claiming it's like your idea so you don't have to admit you were wrong. Also, quite a few people made a very specific U-23 model, you were not one of them, so how about you don't try and pretend you deserve credit. You were characterised as a weird crank because you would waste everyone's time argeuing againt's d-2's when we were talking about regional d-3's and argueing against paying players! Or like here, when you take credit for ideas I can find pages of you argueing against (am I the only one who get's paticularly galling that he can't change opinions without claiming credit?)

Think there are four options in the report and the option that is being recommended revolves around having a U-23 developmental focus. That's closer to what L1O appear to be planning (although there it's more a U-20 thing) than the CSL approach. Have seen nothing about the CSA giving them the go ahead to proceed with phase two, however, so maybe this is destined to gather dust on a shelf like the KPMG report did.

Didn't you just recommend everyone listen to that interview? So how could you not know their moving towards a phase 2 ?

Just for fun, can you source ANY of your claims? All I've seen is a link to an interview that turned out different then you implied (unless you stop listening incredibly early). This post also kinda confirms he was trying to imply the study was over when he was talking about spilling the beans, all indications point to progress not finality, just another lovely piece of dishonestly from bbtb.

[Redcoatsforever]

Didn't you just recommend everyone listen to that interview? So how could you not know their moving towards a phase 2 ?

I'm just going to quote BBTB here:

Have seen nothing about the CSA giving them the go ahead to proceed with phase two

Meaning that the CSA have said nothing about a phase 2, so the plan may wind up going the way of the old CUSL report. I don't think we need to go as far as having "SPECULATION" tags on everything we write now, do we?

[Juby]

I'm just going to quote BBTB here:

Meaning that the CSA have said nothing about a phase 2, so the plan may wind up going the way of the old CUSL report. I don't think we need to go as far as having "SPECULATION" tags on everything we write now, do we?

We can talk about how official if we want, but the only real mention has come from the interview with Richard Whitall that HE just linked. It doesn't strike you as strange that once we finally get something he acts like theirs nothing but indications to the contrary? We actually get something and he bizarrely acts like it's his idea and the study is finished(past tenses to refer to the study, saying it's headed to 'collect dust')?

It's literally like 'hey look at this, oh wait, that's nothing,', He's literally trying to use the first couple minutes of that interview as evidence, and then ignoring the rest?

[ThiKu]

A nationwide (but regionalized), semi-pro d3 would be fine if set-up to be u23 with some overage or foreign rule exceptions. A nationwide d2 would not be able to be regionalized. It'd have to be bigger, better. More like NASL or USL Pro (two conferences).

I've said that quite some time ago. PDL model for d3? Sure, but the season would have to be extended if it's going to be meaningful. Otherwise it's "just another summer league."

[Redcoatsforever]

A nationwide (but regionalized), semi-pro d3 would be fine if set-up to be u23 with some overage or foreign rule exceptions. A nationwide d2 would not be able to be regionalized. It'd have to be bigger, better. More like NASL or USL Pro (two conferences).

I've said that quite some time ago. PDL model for d3? Sure, but the season would have to be extended if it's going to be meaningful. Otherwise it's "just another summer league."

I think an East/West or even West/Central/East regionalization for a D2 could be fine. It would simply have to be broader regions with a national championship, higher spending minimums and maximums, and stronger sponsorship than whatever we have going on at the D3 level.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

As things stand right now it looks like the NASL is going to be providing the D2 league in a Canadian context and regionalization isn't a part of their business plan. On D3 it will be interesting to find out what the CSA made of Jim Easton's report.

[ThiKu]

@Redcoat - yes, I agree with you.

@BBTB - that wouldn't surprise me or particularly disappoint me if it's the case. If Canada's D2 teams are in NASL then OK. It

's a good league, good exposure. We just need MORE teams than Edmonton and Ottawa.

[Redcoatsforever]

@Redcoat - yes, I agree with you.

@BBTB - that wouldn't surprise me or particularly disappoint me if it's the case. If Canada's D2 teams are in NASL then OK. It

's a good league, good exposure. We just need MORE teams than Edmonton and Ottawa.

Let's hope Puerto Rico becomes a state soon, that would increase our allotment of NASL clubs.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Don't have time to double check but I think you'll find that the Islanders do count as an American entry for legal reasons despite Puerto Rico having a separate national soccer association. The 25% thing has always been there apparently and didn't create a problem in an A League context during the 2004 season when Canada had 5 out of 16 teams at D2 level and Puerto Rico had 1:

http://www.rsssf.com/tablesu/usa04.html

[LSM]

Yes, as long as there's no threat of the NASL becoming a "Canadian League" (ie we're approaching 50%+ of the clubs), it should be fairly simple to get a waiver on the 25% thing.

I'm pretty sure, for example, that MLS is still afoul of USSF rules for D1 leagues (multiple teams under single ownership groups: LAG & HOU owned by AEG, CLB & FCD owned by Hunt). No one makes that big a deal of it as long as it's being "worked on".