The new D3 league(s)

[Juby]

The London City thread is worth a look for that. The CSA seem to be enforcing their D3 sanctioning standards (currently only the York Region Shooters and the two Academy teams are OK that way in a CSL context) after an auditing process so they may be hoping to clear out some of the deadwood so they can avoid having two rival D3 leagues running in parallel in southern Ontario. We'll just have to wait and see what unfolds basically.

That thread has nothing to do with the new league, your just pretending this relates so you can keep talking about the CSL. He asked about the new league, he didn't ask if anyone could make stuff up based on CSL articles. Why don't I start drawing NASL conclusions based on MLS articles while were just being foolish? This has to be one of the most blatant examples of trolling, someone specifically asked about the new league and responds like he has factual and relevant info when it's burr speculation and off topic. Why don't you actually wait for it to unfold instead of making things up in the meantime?

[ThiKu]

Juby - just ignore it. Everyone else did....it was a rubbish post and we knew it.

[Juby]

Juby - just ignore it. Everyone else did....it was a rubbish post and we knew it.

Your right, even now I should shut up, it just kills me that someone new (?) asks for info, we all (not having the facts) say nothing but he sees it as a chance to spread misinformation and to talk about other topics, It's not you guys I worry about, it's about new people. Your right though, shutting up now...

[ThiKu]

Nah, I would just post a response to the dude of your own and let the new person make up their own mind on which they believe.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Juby - just ignore it. Everyone else did....it was a rubbish post and we knew it.

You know that how? I have a pretty good idea on whether or not people take the time to read what I have to say on here based on having experimented with using a blog. I wouldn't be posting if my posts were being ignored and that provided a very good gauge on that. The CSA actually forcing the CSL to meet the D3 sanctioning standards is huge news where the new D3 Leagues are concerned because if enough of the "equity owners" do what Ryan Gauss just did in London things could easily swing back over to the sort of posture Dominic DiGironimo had on expansion again. It would be lunatic to have OSA and CSA sanctioned D3 leagues running in parallel in southern Ontario so some sort of behind the scenes merger process is highly likely.

A national D2 league is pie in the sky in the absence of investors willing to pump in between 500k and 1 million a year, but localized semi-pro D3 divisions catering to the most densely populated portions of the country like the greater Golden Horseshoe, Ottawa-Montreal and lower Mainland BC definitely could happen (PDL could then be used to cater to the more geographically isolated communities elsewhere like Winnipeg and Thunder Bay) because the initial financial hit is likely to be an order of magnitude lower. What the vocal minority on here never seem to understand is that the CSL has always been the main obstacle to something like that happening because it was controlled by people more suited to keeping the flame alive in tough times.

If the CSA actually enforce their sanctioning standards only groups with the finances and ambitions that match a more forward looking agenda like DiGironimo's are likely to hang around. I still think pro/rel and more of an Australian state league type model is the way to go (and hope that will be implemented eventually) but the CSA now appear to be doing what needs to be done to make a franchise system actually work by making sure that substandard operations are not able to drift along from season to season regardless of their on-field performance level.

[Juby]

You know that how? I have a pretty good idea on whether or not people take the time to read what I have to say on here based on having experimented with using a blog. I wouldn't be posting if my posts were being ignored and that provided a very good gauge on that. The CSA actually forcing the CSL to meet the D3 sanctioning standards is huge news where the new D3 Leagues are concerned because if enough of the "equity owners" do what Ryan Gauss just did in London things could easily swing back over to the sort of posture Dominic DiGironimo had on expansion again. It would be lunatic to have OSA and CSA sanctioned D3 leagues running in parallel in southern Ontario so some sort of behind the scenes merger process is highly likely.

A national D2 league is pie in the sky in the absence of investors willing to pump in between 500k and 1 million a year, but localized semi-pro D3 divisions catering to the most densely populated portions of the country like the greater Golden Horseshoe, Ottawa-Montreal and lower Mainland BC definitely could happen (PDL could then be used to cater to the more geographically isolated communities elsewhere like Winnipeg and Thunder Bay) because the initial financial hit is likely to be an order of magnitude lower. What the vocal minority on here never seem to understand is that the CSL has always been the main obstacle to something like that happening because it was controlled by people more suited to keeping the flame alive in tough times.

If the CSA actually enforce their sanctioning standards only groups with the finances and ambitions that match a more forward looking agenda like DiGironimo's are likely to hang around. I still think pro/rel and more of an Australian state league type model is the way to go (and hope that will be implemented eventually) but the CSA now appear to be doing what needs to be done to make a franchise system actually work by making sure that substandard operations are not able to drift along from season to season regardless of their on-field performance level.

That guy asked about the new D-3 league. He didn't ask you to go into what you make up about the CSL and how you hate a possible D-2 (btw, mentioning on-field performance? when's the last time you actually saw a CSL game? Not to mention you used to talk crap about DiGironimo?). I am trying to be more brief with his crazy crap, but seriously trollesque behaviour, he's seriously stretching it to stay off topic on his crazy 'ideas'... (btw, go look at his 'blog experience', it's rather sad)

To the guy who asked the question, a certain person or two (NOT BBTB) would actually have that information but they'll probably update us as it's appropriate. (I know it's not perfect Thiku but better?)

[ThiKu]

haha, yer gettin' better!

I certainly don't have an answer to this new fella's legit question. I didn't buy BBTB's response. Just gave it a "pfft."

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Given you have been unable to back up your claim that "everybody" had ignored my post on the previous page, I think the decent thing to do at this point would be for you to apologize for making the remark and retract it. This thread is for discussing new D3 leagues and I would suggest that you should stick to doing that in future rather than making any more ad hominen attacks. There are plenty of things happening right now which could be discussed here. For example there appear to be problems with the Gatineau team getting the financial backing it needs from the City of Gatineau to start play in 2012:

http://soccerslava.com/ligue-semi-pro-du-qu-bec/le-soccer-semi-pro-menac-gatineau.html

[Juby]

Given you have been unable to back up your claim that "everybody" had ignored my post on the previous page, I think the decent thing to do at this point would be for you to apologize for making the remark and retract it. This thread is for discussing new D3 leagues and I would suggest that you should stick to doing that in future rather than making any more ad hominen attacks. There are plenty of things happening right now which could be discussed here. For example there appear to be problems with the Gatineau team getting the financial backing it needs from the City of Gatineau to start play in 2012:

http://soccerslava.com/ligue-semi-pro-du-qu-bec/le-soccer-semi-pro-menac-gatineau.html

hahaha, what about all the bogus remarks your due to retract? I think it's really funny that he tries to act like were off topic when he spent two posts *****ing about the CSL and a possible d-2 but now your Captain On Topic? Shouldn't you retract your goom guesses and lies instead of pretending your not a complete hypocrite? Ohhh and Thiku didn't insult your character (Ad Hominem), He insulted your post, I was the one who called you a troll haha

btw, the article also mentions their might be 8 cities (7 if Gatineau is out) and 5 more the next year!?

To add a bit from the article, I believe it's hitting crunch time, and they (Committee on Recreation and Sport, which will make a recommendation to City Council) still have concerns and need a few more questions answered. They like the project but they have concerns (financial? The deal would subsidize the team $40 000 for the first three years and let them use Mont-Bleu).

[ThiKu]

It's my true hope these leagues last and are a model that BC can follow. BC would probably have to link-up with Washington state and maybe even Oregon to make it work though...? Just a guess, I suppose. Maybe even Alberta but then that'd be a huge geographical area.

[Juby]

It's my true hope these leagues last and are a model that BC can follow. BC would probably have to link-up with Washington state and maybe even Oregon to make it work though...? Just a guess, I suppose. Maybe even Alberta but then that'd be a huge geographical area.

Yeah, I always figured if we could bring Detroit or Buffalo in on the CSL it'd just be a couple extra good markets. I just hope they can be leagues from our side of the border or at least equitable systems so we can at least protect our interests (as in different domestic roster rules depending on what side of the border)

[ThiKu]

Well, by all the doom-and-gloom talk of CSL dropping to d4 status (most likely) you'd prob want the American markets to join the NEW semi-pro league instead? I agree....northern American cities should be welcomed with open arms if they are willing to play ball. IE, they must follow cap (if there is one), roster restrictions (if there was one) and met stadium standards, bankroll standards etc (if there are any!!!).

Bellingham United has joined the PCSL this year, and I assume everyone is happy about it. I've not heard otherwise, so I can't really say. But I think it's pretty neat. Opens-up a derby situation as well with Chilliwack and Abbotsford.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Do you take the time to read the posts on here? VPjr recently explained on the London City thread that there is no such thing as national D4 status in a Canadian context. Beneath D3 there is only senior competitive amateur, which is sanctioned at the provincial rather than the national level. If the CSL loses its D3 sanctioning from the CSA there is nowhere obvious left to go given the OSA and QSF already have provincial level amateur and semi-pro leagues sanctioned. Worth bearing in mind that Victor Montagliani seemed to be keen on CSL expansion to BC back in 2010 and may not have been overly impressed with what subsequently happened where Dominic DiGironimo is concerned. The CSA's pro league committee insisting that sanctioning standards actually be met from now on may be a strategy aimed at breaking the stranglehold of the "equity owners" faction within the CSL.

[Juby]

Do you take the time to read the posts on here? VPjr recently explained on the London City thread that there is no such thing as national D4 status in a Canadian context. Beneath D3 there is only senior competitive amateur, which is sanctioned at the provincial rather than the national level. If the CSL loses its D3 sanctioning from the CSA there is nowhere obvious left to go given the OSA and QSF already have provincial level amateur and semi-pro leagues sanctioned. Worth bearing in mind that Victor Montagliani seemed to be keen on CSL expansion to BC back in 2010 and may not have been overly impressed with what subsequently happened where Dominic DiGironimo is concerned. The CSA's pro league committee insisting that sanctioning standards actually be met from now on may be a strategy aimed at breaking the stranglehold of the "equity owners" faction within the CSL.

Umm, your in the wrong thread, this thread is for the new D-3 (didn't you just try and correct people for responding to your off topic CSL rants?) and that London City thread is also where people where talking about sanctioning, you are talking about it here though because no one really bought your 'sky is falling' claims that the CSL are gonna lose sanctioning this shortly before a season, the only way that could happen is if they ignored the audit.

-Also your 'point' about Victor Montagliani and Dominic DiGironimo makes no sense and is completely off topic, your just mentioning real people to pretend you have facts. I can do it too: And then you further prove (Richard Nixon) how crazy you are by trying to relate this(Trudeau) all to the crazy beef you have with the guys (Spiro Agnew) who 'own' the league 'running the league' (shocking, see how easy it is to falsely leech off other peoples credibility). you really think the CSA is going to audit sanctioning standards to interfere with ownership? Got any evidence under that aluminum foil hat? Are you planning on going further and further off topic till everyone stops talking?

[ThiKu]

I suspect somehow the CSL will maintain its D3 status....purely a guess on my part.

Anyway....this thread is pretty much a no-go area until some QC and Ont D3 announcements come out about the new leagues, CSL loses or maintains its status etc....

PS-just because D4 status doesn't currently exist doesn't mean it can't. Just because CSL loses D3 status doesn't mean the way the league operates will change. "What's in a name."

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

PS-just because D4 status doesn't currently exist doesn't mean it can't. Just because CSL loses D3 status doesn't mean the way the league operates will change. "What's in a name."

The bottom line is that they would need to get sanctioning from somewhere to remain under the mainstream FIFA umbrella. There is no D4 at CSA level and there are already elite provincial leagues at both the semi-pro and amateur levels in place in both Ontario and Quebec. There is no other obvious place to go in other words. Losing D3 status would probably be game over for the CSL.

Latest on the Gatineau team is that they won't be playing in 2012:

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-droit/sports/sport-regional/201112/15/01-4478286-pas-de-soccer-semi-pro-a-gatineau-en-2012.php

The following is a translation provided by Google Chrome:

Three months after announcing that it would align a new club in the Premier League in Quebec next spring, the Regional Soccer Association of Utu (ARSO) puts the project on hold. She made the decision this morning after meeting the day before the members of the Committee on Sport and Recreation for the City of Gatineau.ARSO request for six months funding from $ 120 000 over three years for the municipality to set up the FC Gatineau. Given the concerns of parents of Gatineau and Hull sectors who fear an increase in fees for their children to replenish the coffers of the future concession, members of the committee preferred to wait until January before slicing. They want to meet with supporters and opponents of the project in the same room for the hour."We had a deadline of December 2, but the commissioner of the league decided to stretch it to 14 in the hope that our presentation would resolve the issue, supported the Director General of ARSO, Richard Gravel ."Since we have not answered, we will not here in 2012."And there would be no guarantee that Gatineau to tread the ground with the rest of Quebec the following year."There will be a maximum of 12 teams allowed in the Premier League in Quebec, said Gravel. It is possible that there is no place for us. "

September training must evolve in this circuit during the inaugural season.

In no way surprising to see that opposition of youth soccer parents was an issue on this. It is not going to be easy for the format of Canadian soccer to change away from the model of elite standalone youth soccer clubs that has been dominant over the last twenty years or so.

[Juby]

The bottom line is that they would need to get sanctioning from somewhere to remain under the mainstream FIFA umbrella. There is no D4 at CSA level and there are already elite provincial leagues at both the semi-pro and amateur levels in place in both Ontario and Quebec. There is no other obvious place to go in other words. Losing D3 status would probably be game over for the CSL.

Latest on the Gatineau team is that they won't be playing in 2012:

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-droit/sports/sport-regional/201112/15/01-4478286-pas-de-soccer-semi-pro-a-gatineau-en-2012.php

The following is a translation provided by Google Chrome:

Three months after announcing that it would align a new club in the Premier League in Quebec next spring, the Regional Soccer Association of Utu (ARSO) puts the project on hold. She made the decision this morning after meeting the day before the members of the Committee on Sport and Recreation for the City of Gatineau.ARSO request for six months funding from $ 120 000 over three years for the municipality to set up the FC Gatineau. Given the concerns of parents of Gatineau and Hull sectors who fear an increase in fees for their children to replenish the coffers of the future concession, members of the committee preferred to wait until January before slicing. They want to meet with supporters and opponents of the project in the same room for the hour."We had a deadline of December 2, but the commissioner of the league decided to stretch it to 14 in the hope that our presentation would resolve the issue, supported the Director General of ARSO, Richard Gravel ."Since we have not answered, we will not here in 2012."And there would be no guarantee that Gatineau to tread the ground with the rest of Quebec the following year."There will be a maximum of 12 teams allowed in the Premier League in Quebec, said Gravel. It is possible that there is no place for us. "

September training must evolve in this circuit during the inaugural season.

In no way surprising to see that opposition of youth soccer parents was an issue on this. It is not going to be easy for the format of Canadian soccer to change away from the model of elite standalone youth soccer clubs that has been dominant over the last twenty years or so.

Ohh stop trolling BTBB, if you want to talk about sanctioning, you've already gotten the London City way off topic so you can make a big fuss pretending the sky is falling (I have a hint, they'll still get d-3 sanctioning this year), your the only one pretending the the CSA is going to pull the carpet right out from the CSL this shortly before the season (and despite how clearly masochistic that would be of them, and the only reason your repeating yourself here is because you already looked stupid making the same point in the other thread, are you masochistic?).

Ohhh and how come you provided a 'google translation' this time and not on that last article? Probably because your angle right now is the possible demise of FC Gatineau, and not the fact that in the last article confirmed their are seven other cities on board for this year and 5 more the following year. The Quebec league is doing a great job setting up and you choose to only talk about one club bid having trouble? Why the hell are you trying to make this new league look bad?

You do realize that digging up an article on FC Gatineau every time you want to talk about something completely off topic is just childishly foolish? Don't try and mix up FC Gatineau with your crazy made up ****. I know you have no credibility but using others is pathetic, let me give you an example:

Dominic DiGironimo resigned as CSL commissioner a couple years ago and has since headed Foot Hockey Canada, at the time BBTB hated him and slandered him and his ideas (by wasting time argueing foolish things no one had said), ever since DDG quit, BBTB has since tried to claim every conspiracy he's made up is why DDG quit (despite no evidence and it clearly being made up by BBTB). BBTB uses old names like puppets to try and give his posts more credibility despite their being nonsense. He does the same thing with old leagues and reports, he mentions them, and then says what he wants to say even if it's a complete lie.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The latest podcast for The Soccer Show on the FAN590 is worth a listen for the latest on League One Ontario:

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/soccer_show/ss_20120113_005323--January-12-Edition-of-The-Soccer-Show.mp3

{from 16:40 onwards}

and this is the url of the league's website:

http://www.league1ontario.com/

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Ron Smale, the OSL president is interviewed in the latest It's Called Football podcast, about League One Ontario:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?2683-It-s-Called-Football-Guest-OSA-president-Ron-Smalle

{16:00 onwards if you want to avoid the filler content}

[Redcoatsforever]

Ron Smale, the OSL president is interviewed in the latest It's Called Football podcast, about League One Ontario:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?2683-It-s-Called-Football-Guest-OSA-president-Ron-Smalle

{16:00 onwards if you want to avoid the filler content}

Excited to see if there is a London team (although if they decided Forest City, Middlesex County, or Western Ontario sounded better, I'd understand) this League One Ontario (LOO? That might've been shortsighted as acronyms go...) is the same league Milltown FC were working on creating, yes?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Yes it's the league Milltown are involved in. In the clip Ron Smale states that most of the interested clubs are from the Golden Horseshoe (Hamilton to Durham region). Apparently there have been 20 expressions of interest for 2012 but only 8 clubs appear to have been at a recent information session with another 6 being mentioned as not being able to be there. Reading between the lines I get the impression that they are not quite there yet in terms of numbers committed for a 2012 season to be a sure thing at this point, but hopefully that will resolve itself soon. They have roster rules about having to use a certain number of U20 players which might make it easier for a London team to compete, given youth players usually find it easier to do the travelling required.

http://www.league1ontario.com/InfoPackage.pdf

Roster regulations:

•18 player game day roster with minimum of 8 players U20, 5 of which

must be in starting line-up

•Maximum 3 imports (non-Canadians) per club

•Maximum of 5 substitutions per match. All substitutions are permanent

•Minimum of 5 players signed to a professional contract with minimum

annual compensation of $2,000 per player

•Minimum player payroll of $20,000 in 2012, escalating 10% per annum in

2013 & 2014

[hamiltonfan]

I’m already disappointed in the professionalism displayed by League 1 staff. Although the website and information PDF is not a final product, it’s still extremely armature. ANYTHING the public can view should be of utmost quality.

The CSL is not the answer to a viable D3 solution, I was hoping this league would be…now I’m having doubts.

[maccaliam]

Roster regulations:

•18 player game day roster with minimum of 8 players U20, 5 of which

must be in starting line-up

•Maximum 3 imports (non-Canadians) per club

•Maximum of 5 substitutions per match. All substitutions are permanent

•Minimum of 5 players signed to a professional contract with minimum

annual compensation of $2,000 per player

•Minimum player payroll of $20,000 in 2012, escalating 10% per annum in

2013 & 2014

I find the minimum of 8 U20 aged players in a match day squad interesting, as that is quite a lot. I love the idea of it essentially being a more professional development league for players in their late teens but as a minimum of five U20s must be in the starting line-up, I wonder how much that could potentially hurt the on-field product?

[Redcoatsforever]

I’m already disappointed in the professionalism displayed by League 1 staff. Although the website and information PDF is not a final product, it’s still extremely armature. ANYTHING the public can view should be of utmost quality.

The CSL is not the answer to a viable D3 solution, I was hoping this league would be…now I’m having doubts.

The site looks like a placeholder with a little light content. They probably haven't even hired a webmaster yet, and just wanted to buy the domain name and slap something up in a hurry to keep it from being purchased by anybody else. Calm down.

[hamiltonfan]

All statements are made with a constructive mindset. Each process of the development of a new league must be done at high professional standards. This will reflect in all part of a new league. After we have dealt with the old boy network of the CSL for all these years, there must be some accountability for the new league leaders to meet these standards.

The Information Package was not just a placehold for info while they prepare to launch something with a nice look; this was given to potential owners. You can’t demand professionalism out of teams where the league is not conducting itself in that manner……i.e CSL/CPSL ways.

As for the context and on field strategies, I’m defiantly encouraged and excited for upcoming developments.