James Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 All three MLS clubs have youth programs, and they're growing rapidly. Soon, it will be quite hard for kids who aren't in those streams young to get a look, when you keep in mind that sheer competitiveness demands most of their players be either American or international. Both Hamilton and Saiko have the intelligence to play at MLS level but neither is outstanding enough to guarantee a look, let alone a tryout, unfortunately. I think Hamilton, if he put on 25 pounds of muscle, could easily play at a higher level. Not sure about Saiko; reads the field really well but makes some poor decisions sometimes. Too many people rate the quality of the MLS too highly. I'm a fan and I follow the league but there is no way anyone could ever convince me that Hamilton or Saiko or Porter or Rago would not be guaranteed a look by most any MLS side. Further, you could argue that they might even make the starting 11 or certainly the bench at clubs like New England, Toronto or Vancouver. Hamilton would be a starter at TFC. I wouldn't swap him for anyone at that club. And it isn't even about what he does game in and game out(stumping and frustrating league leader, Etienne Barbara as an example), it about how much he's been improving his game while he's doing it. I say, you throw a player like Hamilton into the MLS and he within a few games, he'd be one of the best players on the pitch. I'm not sure he needs to put on 25 pounds! Good god! Using the Barbara example(6-1 and built like a tank), Hamilton did pretty well against him. The MLS is a great league, miles ahead and deeper than the NASL but the bottom feeders aren't any better than the best players floating around the NASL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jloome Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Too many people rate the quality of the MLS too highly. I'm a fan and I follow the league but there is no way anyone could ever convince me that Hamilton or Saiko or Porter or Rago would not be guaranteed a look by most any MLS side. Further, you could argue that they might even make the starting 11 or certainly the bench at clubs like New England, Toronto or Vancouver. Hamilton would be a starter at TFC. I wouldn't swap him for anyone at that club. And it isn't even about what he does game in and game out(stumping and frustrating league leader, Etienne Barbara as an example), it about how much he's been improving his game while he's doing it. I say, you throw a player like Hamilton into the MLS and he within a few games, he'd be one of the best players on the pitch. I'm not sure he needs to put on 25 pounds! Good god! Using the Barbara example(6-1 and built like a tank), Hamilton did pretty well against him. The MLS is a great league, miles ahead and deeper than the NASL but the bottom feeders aren't any better than the best players floating around the NASL. Respectfully disagree. The best of the NASL are generally former bottom feeders in MLS. Guys like Ryan Pore who dominated at the NASl level can hardly get a sniff at expansion Portland. And I like Hamilton but the speed of the game between the two levels is a different step up as well. I don't think there's any way you would automatically peg him to start over Adrian Cann or Andy Iro. That would be nuts. Ty Harden? Maybe, but there are nights I'd start an orange traffic cone over Harden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Ty Harden? Maybe, but there are nights I'd start an orange traffic cone over Harden. Ho-HO! Funny sir, well funny. That is up there with "Milk turns quicker than <Insert victim of personal ire>" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 For what it's worth, I didn't think that Hamilton was good enough to be on the same pitch as TFC at Commonwealth and that's before the red card to Saiko. Hamilton is good where he is in a second division. MLS is still a big jump for NASL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Hamilton could reasonably look at Scandinavia before a return to MLS in the future? But not rushing him - he's still young. Maybe Scandinavia in a year or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Respectfully disagree. The best of the NASL are generally former bottom feeders in MLS. Guys like Ryan Pore who dominated at the NASl level can hardly get a sniff at expansion Portland. And I like Hamilton but the speed of the game between the two levels is a different step up as well. I don't think there's any way you would automatically peg him to start over Adrian Cann or Andy Iro. That would be nuts. Ty Harden? Maybe, but there are nights I'd start an orange traffic cone over Harden. I don't think you're entirely correct here. It all depends on how the player develops and what situation he finds himself in. Even your example that Hamilton wouldn't displace Cann is a little suspect vis-a-vis NASL versus MLS. Cann is really just an NASL veteran with a 2 year, 14 game sojourn in the Danish 1st division. Yet, he found a spot on an MLS team and even excelled in some respects. Right now, I agree that Hamilton wouldn't displace Cann. However, there is a 7 year gap between the two. If Hamilton can continue to excel and work on his game, either in NASL or scandinavia, there's no reason why he couldn't find himself as a decent MLS squad player in five years time. He's just got to make sure he's always in a situation where he can be improving and learning all the time. With respect to Saiko, I would say that he's closer to making the jump than Hamilton. I don't think he can make the jump tomorrow, but in 3 years when he's 24 I could see it. There are so many circumstances (timing, fitting a team's needs, style of play fitting the league, cap space, quota etc.) that come into play in securing a spot on an MLS team that I don't think you can make a blanket statement like above. I could definitely see 1 or 2 FCE players on MLS rosters in 3 or 4 year's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Respectfully disagree. The best of the NASL are generally former bottom feeders in MLS. Guys like Ryan Pore who dominated at the NASl level can hardly get a sniff at expansion Portland. And I like Hamilton but the speed of the game between the two levels is a different step up as well. I don't think there's any way you would automatically peg him to start over Adrian Cann or Andy Iro. That would be nuts. Ty Harden? Maybe, but there are nights I'd start an orange traffic cone over Harden. USL D1 defender of the year Marco Velez had to be bailed out by Adrian Serioux and Nana Attakora time and again during his tenure at TFC. There are definitely players who can make the jump successfully, but being dominant in the NASL does not automatically mean that a player will excel in MLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 USL D1 defender of the year Marco Velez had to be bailed out by Adrian Serioux and Nana Attakora time and again during his tenure at TFC. There are definitely players who can make the jump successfully, but being dominant in the NASL does not automatically mean that a player will excel in MLS. Yep. And look at NASL keeper of the year Nolly and defender of the year Janicki to further underline this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 USL D1 defender of the year Marco Velez had to be bailed out by Adrian Serioux and Nana Attakora time and again during his tenure at TFC. There are definitely players who can make the jump successfully, but being dominant in the NASL does not automatically mean that a player will excel in MLS. Yep. And look at NASL keeper of the year Nolly and defender of the year Janicki to further underline this point. Velez was 28, Nolly is 29 and Janicki is 27. It is a slightly different situation when the player in question is 21 years old and developed in a professional youth set up in England. I am not going to pretend i know if he is ready or not to play in MLS, but his age and upside at least to me illustrates he should at least get a look this upcomming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Hamilton to Scandanavia? Why? Have you not heard his dads accent? It totally audible in some of the web steams. Apparently, they are going to fit him with a bleep button him for next season. Surley Scottish football would give him a equally competative opertunity, without significant relocation issues. Unless of course were worried about him doing an O*** H*******, when (if) he goes there. Technically he is half scottish, unless his dads Scottish accent is a total throwback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Scandinavian Premier Leagues>Scottish Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Scandinavian Premier Leagues<Scottish Premier League Fixed your post. Maybe if you removed Celtic and Rangers from the equation, but certainly not when you have them in there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I'd put FC Copenhagen up against Rangers or Celtic any day and expect FCC to get a result. After Celtic and Rangers, and maybe Hearts, the SPL isn't even close to the English Championship let alone the various Scandinavian premier leagues. Rangers and Celtic better than most Scandinavian teams - given. 2 teams does not a great league make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I'd put FC Copenhagen up against Rangers or Celtic any day and expect FCC to get a result. After Celtic and Rangers, and maybe Hearts, the SPL isn't even close to the English Championship let alone the various Scandinavian premier leagues. Rangers and Celtic better than most Scandinavian teams - given. 2 teams does not a great league make. The bottom of those Scandanavian leagues are just as crap as the bottom of the SPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Fixed your post. Maybe if you removed Celtic and Rangers from the equation, but certainly not when you have them in there... Not sure about that. Maybe in the 1970's or something. In Scotland it's always only Celtic and Rangers. They don't have much success in europe and are frequently beaten by clubs from places like Norway and Denmark(and from lesser leagues than that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 The bottom of those Scandanavian leagues are just as crap as the bottom of the SPL. I think you might be off here too. If you look at the tables in Sweden, Norway and Denmark, there is a lot more parity than in Scotland. Copenhagen has owned the Danish league but Brondby, Odense and Aalborg are never far off. In Norway any one of half a dozen clubs are serious contenders(Rosenborg, Molde, Strabaek, Tromso, Valerenga, Brann...) In Sweden, the same thing, in fact, I think they've had a different league champion for the last 5 or six seasons. OK, I checked it... In Sweden, they've had 8 different clubs as league champions since 2000. In Norway, four different clubs have been champions in that span. In Denmark, Four different champions since 2000. In Scotland, you have to go back til 1984-85, when Aberdeen won a title to find a club other than Rangers or Celtic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Rangers have never lost to a Danish or Norwegian club team. They've also qualified for the UCL group stage 8 times since the 99-2000 season. Apart from their loss to a Lithuanian team in CL qualifiers their results have been modestly successful in comparison to Scandanavian sides over the last decade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangers_F.C._in_Europe Celtic split their results with FCK in 06-07 and lost and drew to Aalborg in 08-09. That's a small sample size. Celtic have also made the group stage of UCL 5 times since 03-04. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangers_F.C._in_Europe In the past decade, how many times have Danish or Norwegian teams participated in the group stage of the UCL? (FCK - twice, Aab - once, RBK -5) How many times have they gone into the knockout stages? (once, FCK round of 16 last year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 We aren't talking about if Rangers/Celtic are better than Copenhagen or Rosenborg. On any day I'd put money on Cop or Ros to be honest, but it wouldn't be a "simple" bet as Rangers/Celtic are good teams. The debate is that Scandinavian leagues are better than the SPL. Ie, Motherwell v. Leeds (at random) - who wins? My money on Leeds. Leeds v. ..... Tromso (at random)....tough one but I put my money on Tromso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 We aren't talking about if Rangers/Celtic are better than Copenhagen or Rosenborg. On any day I'd put money on Cop or Ros to be honest, but it wouldn't be a "simple" bet as Rangers/Celtic are good teams. The debate is that Scandinavian leagues are better than the SPL. Ie, Motherwell v. Leeds (at random) - who wins? My money on Leeds. Leeds v. ..... Tromso (at random)....tough one but I put my money on Tromso. Ere 'ang on a mo!...No your right Tromso might nick that one. What I'm talking about is an English speaking Player with a Scottish dad. The work permits a no brainer. He has residency rights in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Ere 'ang on a mo!...No your right Tromso might nick that one. What I'm talking about is an English speaking Player with a Scottish dad. The work permits a no brainer. He has residency rights in the UK. But with those golden locks, he'd be right at home as a Scandihoovian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedinathan Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 But with those golden locks, he'd be right at home as a Scandihoovian. I'm actually suprised the ESG hasn't created a "Thor" chant/song for him yet. We've already got a "Psycho Saiko" thing for Shaun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulliganl Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I apologize for highjacking this thread, but what do you FCE fanatics think about Niko Saler? He's young (19) and seems to be getting a lot of playing time for their first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedinathan Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Hmmm. Nothing wrong with what I've seen of niko. I think he'll benefit from some more experience. I've seen him make some mistakes on the field but he's recovered well. I think he'll continue to improve in the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Ere 'ang on a mo!...No your right Tromso might nick that one. What I'm talking about is an English speaking Player with a Scottish dad. The work permits a no brainer. He has residency rights in the UK. haha, gotcha re: the Leeds comparison! Yes, residency rights is a big bonus. Would be nothing wrong with him playing in Scotland....but I'd prefer a more technical league like Scandinavia as we play latino/technical opposition as opposed to "hussle and bussle" Brit-type opposition with CMNT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I apologize for highjacking this thread, but what do you FCE fanatics think about Niko Saler? He's young (19) and seems to be getting a lot of playing time for their first team. He had a tough game last match but he shows signs. He's very young still and he has big potential. They put him in the back(Jonke was out but also maybe as a lesson to Suprenant-who has been a bit sloppy back there at times). Saler is still only a '92, in year or two, he could be a real asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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