Carver resigns

[ag futbol]

I've posted enough on this board to let most people know where my opinion is of MLS relative to other leagues. I am certainly not trying to change my arguement. I've seen enough MLS players go between here and SPL, Norway, and the lower england leagues to know approximately where were at and where I want to make a comparison.

To most people for the longest time, the "top" leagues have always been the big three on the list. The next group in terms of quality would be approximately what i defined it as. Sorry if that confused anybody and we can avoid have a twenty page arguement over symantics.

And i agree between 10-20 is fair.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Not looking to start an argument either but I think many/most people would include Germany and France as top leagues with at a stretch Holland and in recent seasons Russia getting there as well. Lots of teams that can draw at least 15,000 to 20,000 fans so it is similar to a North American major league being the yardstick.

Then the second tier would be leagues that are predominantly full-time pro but have lots of small clubs that draw under 10,000 fans sometimes substantially so. Countries like Greece, Portugal and Scotland with a tiny number of huge clubs and a lot of smaller ones tend to do well in the UEFA coefficients, while other countries like Sweden and Switzerland that spread the wealth a bit better in spectator interest terms tend to struggle, so it's far from clear cut where the best overall quality is on that basis. Third tier would be leagues that are mainly semi-pro.

In terms of average quality MLS fits in just fine with leagues in the 7 to 30 range, in my opinion, and is significantly better than the semi-pro leagues in the 30 to 52 sort of range but obviously still has some way to go before it will be on a par with leagues 1 to 5 in UEFA coefficient terms.

People need to bear in mind when they talk about "Europe" that top division games there are more likely to be like this:-

http://dubsteps.blogspot.com/2008/05/nk-zagreb-4-hnk-cibalia-vinkovci-1.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwyPikg-AkE

than the Premiership stuff that is shown on Rogers Sportsnet or Setanta.

[Cheeta]

I give MLS less credit when it's compared to the variety of UEFA leagues than most others but by it's nature that's a hard gauge to use. MLS clubs are built to play in MLS. SPL clubs are built to play in the SPL and so on. It's hard to really judge where who stands next to who, and under what circumstances.

Honestly, I don't think MLS 2014 will in many ways resemble MLS 2009. I sincerely feel that all the things which needed to be in place to force the league to go beyond it's foundation are already in place and the effects will be felt more and more every season from here forward.

Expansion has brought numerous new owners (who've invested serious money into the league) and along with that numerous new eyes and ideas to the administrative side of the table. And next year the salary cap should about double (amongst other rule changes). Good developments in my opinion. Ones which will improve the league top to bottom in too many ways to mention.

Re teddym;

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

^ Does Steve Nicol get a lot of love for his managerial success with DC?

I hope not since he was never at DC.

Quite right. Don't know what I was thinking. D.C., N.E. My apologies to both the alphabet and the good people of Boston.

(DC . . . New England, what's the diff? It's only MLS.)

Now your getting it!

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

P.S. I think Nicol, Schmid and probably Arena have potential to go beyond MLS, but guys like Carver bad mouthing numerous aspects of the league aren't going to help them do it.

Nah. That's feeble--think the phrase is 'grabbing at straws'. Everybody knows there are lots of things wrong with MLS. (It's a young league, what would you expect?) Besides, anybody who'd listen to Carver knows what he's like. Would you buy a used grievance from him?

True, MLS is what MLS is. Problem being guys like Carver, when they whine, just reinforce the negative perceptions people have of MLS. And not just the peoples in Europe, but also the millions of Euro-centric but soccer friendly North Americans and their friends/families who couldn't give MLS the time of day. That's too big a market for any successful business to ignore. Can MLS go anything about the Carvers of the world? Maybe not much. But they shouldn't dismiss them either.

Me? I tend to lend more credit to the people who put their money where their mouth is. Guys like Carver who cut off their family's income when they quite their MLS job because they think it's unbearable rubbish. Or Mr. Beckham, who came, saw, and ran away, using his own money to buy his way out of MLS.

No matter how big of a grain of salt you take it with, these gentlemen are saying something with their own dollars and cents. There is probably something worth hearing there.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

Me? I tend to lend more credit to the people who put their money where their mouth is. Guys like Carver who cut off their family's income when they quite their MLS job because they think it's unbearable rubbish. Or Mr. Beckham, who came, saw, and ran away, using his own money to buy his way out of MLS.

I tend to give more credit to people who are actually successful. If Carver had actually showed that he could coach at a professional level and was successful and still quit that would be one thing. He was an abject failure and just didn't seem like head coach material at any professional level so I find it hard to respect his opinion.

Beckham also failed to some extent in MLS though it is debateable whether he could have succeeded given his abilities. Admittedly the quality of his teammates was poor but he also showed that he was not the superstar player that he was hyped to be. Yes in Milan he has shown he can be a high level role player when surrounded by other superior players. Yet he also showed in LA that he was not the type of player to take charge of a game himself or who made his teammates better than they normally would be.

Show me the guys who succeeded in MLS and then quit in frustration and I will be more inclined to believe your points. I am not that interested in the opinions of failures.

[Richard]

"Yes in Milan he has shown he can be a high level role player when surrounded by other superior players. "

Hmmmm.... soccer is a team game, one player can seldom change a team's longer term fortunes on his own. In general as the average calibre of the team rises, so does the average level of play and that of the individual players as they respond to their teammates. You ever heard of the phenomenon of teams playing to the level of their opposition, same principle?

[Richard]

"Yes in Milan he has shown he can be a high level role player when surrounded by other superior players. "

Hmmmm.... soccer is a team game, one player can seldom change a team's longer term fortunes on his own. In general as the average calibre of the team rises, so does the average level of play and that of the individual players as they respond to their teammates. You ever heard of the phenomenon of teams playing to the level of their opposition, same principle?

[Richard]

The Commissioner Speaks

MLS Commissioner Garber talks about recent comments, Carver

...many of you read about John Carver's departure from Toronto FC. I'd like to clarify one aspect of the story. Coach Carver stated publicly that he believed MLS requested or required that he coach from the sideline during games. You should know that MLS did not request or require him to coach from the sideline. The League does not have a policy requiring a coach to be on the sideline during a game. While we were disappointed that multiple media outlets took Carver's assertion as fact without contacting MLS, Toronto FC's Mo Johnston did clarify on Wednesday that it was the club's decision to have Carver on the field.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

"Hmmmm.... soccer is a team game, one player can seldom change a team's longer term fortunes on his own...

True to an extent but having the likes of Edson Buddle and Landon Donovan to link up with means he can't sensibly be argued as having been on his own. David Beckham failed to have the same level of impact on his team as the likes of Blanco, Schelotto, Stoichkov, Etcheverry and Valderrama have had in MLS despite being billed by some as the player who was going to take the league to the next level. That wasn't a shock, in my opinion. Given the many deficiencies in his game that were summed up quite well by George Best in the quote, "He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right", he was never going to have the type of impact that Pele had with the Cosmos. When that reality finally sunk in he ran away to Milan where he could shine again doing the eye catching stuff amongst top class players who are able to make sure that the many flaws in his game are not exposed.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

True to an extent but having the likes of Edson Buddle and Landon Donovan to link up with means he can't sensibly be argued as having been on his own. David Beckham failed to have the same level of impact on his team as the likes of Blanco, Schelotto, Stoichkov, Etcheverry and Valderrama have had in MLS despite being billed by some as the player who was going to take the league to the next level. That wasn't a shock, in my opinion. Given the many deficiencies in his game that were summed up quite well by George Best in the quote, "He can't kick with his left foot, he can't tackle, he can't head the ball and he doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right", he was never going to have the type of impact that Pele had with the Cosmos. When that reality finally sunk in he ran away to Milan where he could shine again doing the eye catching stuff amongst top class players who are able to make sure that the many flaws in his game are not exposed.

Agreed.

[Richard]

He may not have had the impact on the field that MLS hoped for for a variety of reasons, but he sure had a profound impact on MLS and raised the general profile of the league and the game amongst the general public like no other imported player has done. There is no way a game between Beckham-less MLS / LA Galaxy and the USL-1 Whitecaps for example, would have drawn 48,000 paying spectators in Vancouver and then another 37,000 in Edmonton and generated the national soccer buzz those games did.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

He may not have had the impact on the field that MLS hoped for for a variety of reasons, but he sure had a profound impact on MLS and raised the general profile of the league and the game amongst the general public like no other imported player has done. There is no way a game between Beckham-less MLS / LA Galaxy and the USL-1 Whitecaps for example, would have drawn 48,000 paying spectators in Vancouver and then another 37,000 in Edmonton and generated the national soccer buzz those games did.

That's also true. The Beckham "brand" certainly provided a big bump in that regard.