Post-match melee

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

There are always a few idiots around who will use an opportunity such as this to spout racist bull****. At the game, a big group of Canadian supporters (front and centre in 114) was chanting "Where's your passport." They got a good booing from some of us.

But really, what're you gonna do? It's not like we screen our fellow Canadian supporters for racist beliefs. Yes, we should always be calling people out for racist comments. But we don't. We also don't all chime in with racism of our own.

As for the violence -- I'm impressed that there weren't more problems, given the anarchy that is Saputo Stadium (compared to BMO, anyway). With my tix about halfway up 114, I was forced to stand side-by-side with what I ignorantly assume are the children of the many death squad vets we let in as a favour to Ronald Reagan. Is that racist?

[Massive Attack]

Um, chanting 'Where's your passport' isn't racist.

Its nice to see all the insensitive politically correct twats get all indignant though....

[RS]

When did Honduras become a race?

I told a bunch of Honduran fans who were taunting us on the way back to the Metro to feel good about themselves when they return to their Canadian homes and benefit from all that this country has to offer (including the right to act like a total dickhead towards this very country).

They retorted with "Canada sucks!" I asked to see their passports, they walked away sheepishly.

Was I a racist?

[Most Scottish Man in Cdn.]

Apparently I'm not qualified to answer your question Vox. I'm just a twat....

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Um, chanting 'Where's your passport' isn't racist.

Its nice to see all the insensitive politically correct twats get all indignant though....

Right ... you were just asking about the location of their passports. My bad.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by VoxPopuliCosmicum

Right ... you were just asking about the location of their passports. My bad.

I never made a single comment to a Honduran about their passports during the match. But that statement isn't racist. There's nothing I hate more than the wrongful use of the race card. I can't stand pathetic people that do that.

I did yell some very unsavory things at Hondurans though.

[RS]

Equating a passport to race is complete stupidity.

Are Canadians all of the same race?

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

I didn't sing "where's your passport", but there's nothing actually wrong with it. It's not saying "Where's your passport, your country sucks". If you're a second or third generation Canadian, you should support Canada. This country has given you free health care, opportunity and in general a higher quality of life than you would have enjoyed in your old country, which is why your parents/grandparents came here in the first place. Personally, my background is Italian and while I support them, I would never put them above my home, which is Canada.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Most Scottish Man in Cdn.

Apparently I'm not qualified to answer your question Vox. I'm just a twat....

Not just a twat, a twat professing his Scottishness after 200 years in the colonies. My mother's name was McCallum but you would not find me professing to be any more Scottish than a Big Mac. Twat.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

Not just a twat, a twat professing his Scottishness after 200 years in the colonies. My mother's name was McCallum but you would not find me professing to be any more Scottish than a Big Mac. Twat.

Yup.

This is exactly why I got so pissed off in the first place.

[amacpher]

I don't get the "passport" chant.(?)

Most Canadians don't even have a passport. Go to any rural town and you'll quickly discover many people have never left their province ... EVER!

If anything it should like a good chant for the Hondurans to use on Canadians and Americans.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by I_AM_CANADIAN

This country has given you free health care, opportunity and in general a higher quality of life than you would have enjoyed in your old country,

O/T, but why do people always inter-change the terms "free health-care" and "socialized health-care"?

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Whatever... You get the idea, anyhow.

And the passport chant is essentially saying that according to your passport you're Canadian, so why are you wearing a Honduras shirt?

[mcaout]

quote:Originally posted by JamboAl

I was in Row 5 and I got hit with beer too. I didn't see what happened afterwards other than us being charged by some Hondurans and then it going the other way. I saw quite a few punches thrown on both sides. The security at Saputo kept us inside the stadium for what seemed like 15-20 mins while the police arrived to "provide a police escort" which happened to be out back and into a dark park where they left us to fend for ourselves. To say I was mad at the situation would be putting it very mildly.

I can confim this version of events. I was just behind JamboAl.

The beer throwing did come from a few Honduran fans as I AM CANADIAN says. There were also beers thrown back, and various things were thrown on the pitch too over the course of the second half. First half a bottle was thrown towards the linesman as well (I believe after an offside call against Canada). I did see that fellow get hit with, I guess it was an umbrella, too and he wasn't doing anything but walking down to the exit.

Generally, I understand why the fights happened and I think it was really unfortunate. I don't like to see it though, and really it shouldn't ever happen. Some of the blame should go to the organizing, but individually we have to be responsible for our actions.

I have respect for the fellow who admits he tossed that dude because he was reacting and that it wasn't a good move. Stuff happens when its heated.

What I don't like to read are other posts applauding his actions.

[Daniel]

There was always going to be bad blood, especially if Canada lost. What was going to happen happened, security stepped in with the cops, the fight was broken up, and everyone went about their business.

As for being held in the section, people were free to leave 114 through the other (unmanned) exit.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by mcaout

I can confim this version of events. I was just behind JamboAl.

The beer throwing did come from a few Honduran fans as I AM CANADIAN says. There were also beers thrown back, and various things were thrown on the pitch too over the course of the second half. First half a bottle was thrown towards the linesman as well (I believe after an offside call against Canada). I did see that fellow get hit with, I guess it was an umbrella, too and he wasn't doing anything but walking down to the exit.

Generally, I understand why the fights happened and I think it was really unfortunate. I don't like to see it though, and really it shouldn't ever happen. Some of the blame should go to the organizing, but individually we have to be responsible for our actions.

I have respect for the fellow who admits he tossed that dude because he was reacting and that it wasn't a good move. Stuff happens when its heated.

What I don't like to read are other posts applauding his actions.

Why not?? The Honduran was asking for it.

Are any of us arrogant/stupid enough to walk into a stadium in Honduras and act that way. Or is that a racist statment?

[mcaout]

quote:Originally posted by Most Scottish Man in Cdn.

I love how angry you guys get that you basically experienced closing time at any Halifax bar but when someone says something like this, which is blatantly racist no one says anything.

I wasn't at the match but several people on here have admitted not only their involvement in this disgusting episode but also in some cases admitted that we may have been involved in starting it. What's just as bad is the level of excitement that people are showing on here for being involved in violence. Pathetic.

Flubber's quote is totally unecessary, and while not what I'd consider racist (Houndurans aren't a race) it is in the worst taste. I never understood why many Vs mock those who may come from a lower economic strata, or from countries with 3rd world economies. "We have more money than you haha" What's that?

The passport chants aren't ones I favour, but they are more directed as I AM CANADIAN suggested to people not supporting their country and also to players with dodgey ties to Hounduras (Rather ironic I think considering, Menezes, Bircham, Yallup...)

I don't think were making any friends amoung the Houndurans etc... making fun of them for being poor. Yet in the same breath we expect them to support Canada.

The thing that bothers me even more, and purhaps few here will care considering how wide spread it was at the match, is the homophobia. I just don't get it.

[mcaout]

Why not? For one, fighting in the stands isn't going to endear us to Fifa. Look at what one fan's actions did to Denmark.

Since when have fights in the stands been a good thing? I can understand defending yourself, and that's purhaps what he was doing. As I posted I give the man credit for saying, 'it was heated and I probaly shouldn't have done that.'

I wont defend the Houndurans who picked fights, but why glorify Canadians doing the same. I was beside a few guys who even at half time made comments about finding people to fight. That's stupid. Which ties into your point, Vs hopefully wouldn't be the type to go into Honduras and be 'arrogant/stupid' but some were acting that way.

Of course that's not a racist comment.

[Guest Ed]

Running onto the pitch and attacking a player is quite far removed from some asshole Honduran supporter getting his teeth knocked down his throat for taunting a pissed off home crowd. I applaud the heat of the moment action from the nameless Toronto fan . Of course I am not condoning fan violence but there's some things you just don't do. Try taunting the opposition fans at a Stanley Cup playoff game, when you just won in overtime in their building. Nobody here is that f*ing thick and I doubt noone here would be surprised or have much sympathy for a Sens fan got his face rearranged if he went into the nosebleeds at Air Canada Centre taunting the Leafs fans. Be careful talking about "'glorifying Canadians 'who picked fights'". We were not the ones 'picking fights'.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

quote:Originally posted by flubber

The result has left us all angry. But not as angry as the filthy rich US families who were deprived of their gardeners, housekeepers and nannies who abandoned ship to support their beloved Honduras at the game in Montreal.

Still laughing.

[Eric]

This one of the biggest problems with soccer here in Canada, we canadians question any symthom of nationalisim any of us cares to show. Why? what's wrong with being nationalistic and showing the Hondurans who owns the house. I'm not saying we should jump on their heads or go straight to them and punch them in the face. But any time we play at home the opposition should feel the pressure and the heat from our fans.

Obviously the "white trash" comment from flubber is out of place, because unless he is a canadian native, he is as much an immigrant as those Hondurans.

Every where else in the world home fans make the visitors feel the heat, why can't we do the same?

[Most Scottish Man in Cdn.]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Yup.

This is exactly why I got so pissed off in the first place.

I go away for a few hours and if anything the rage grows...wow...I've clearly touched a nerve here.

For the (is it?) fourth time I am sorry for my Green Street Hooligans comment. It was wrong and obviously people are still upset about Saturday but a) my team lost too and I never defended the unacceptable behaviour of SOME Honduran fans only the racialising (most people would consider generalisations made about an entire nationality, especially negative ones, racist) of this behaviour. So again sorry for that...but I'm not sorry for pointing out the inappropriateness of framing the argument against SOME Honduran fans' beahaviour in racial/ethnic/national language. And it seems some people agree with me.

As for Ed and Rudi I don't have a problem with either of you (and certainly have never called either one of you a twat...indeed after you called me one I am still willing to talk in a semi-civil way). I would say this though - you know little to nothing about me or my family, how I was raised, where I was raised and so on. I grew up in an area of Nova Scotia that is 75% Scottish and those cultural bonds are still very strong even years after they've subsided in other parts of the country. No one would even raise an eyebrow here if I said I was Scottish, in ethno-cultural terms. I never claimed - other than my Username - to be anything. I've certainly never said I was actually from Scotland. If some people raised in a certain cultural environment choose to identify with that culture in a FREE country what is the problem? You don't have to feel that way. And I never said I was any more or less Canadian than anyone else. It is possible to be two things at once (right now for example I am both pissed off and trying to understand).

We live in a multi-cultural country and people can self-identify as they see fit. Anyway instead of countering my argument that making sweeping negative comments about a group of people is wrong (it is) you're now honing in on my ethnic identity and taking shots at me on a personal level (which I never did to you). Am I the only one who thinks that's going too far?

If you want to call me a twat go ahead but it's hardly a compelling argument.

[mcaout]

I agree Ed that the Hondurans who went over the top, throwing beer, were in the wrong. But why do we suggest greater security and seperating fans? So many posts have this idea. Yet to me, it sounds like your suggesting, as many also do, that the Vs should inforce their own rules in the stands. Generally there is a lack of fear. The Houndurans aren't worried and they don't respect what we could do to them. Is that really so terrible? Do we have to forge a reputaion here? Get the Piss bags? Knives out? Are we going to take our support style from places like Central America (Which is widely condemed here as classless and violent) Turkey, Serbia, and European Firms?

I think we share the same sense of the respect away support should have. I will agree with anyone saying that the few Hondurans throwing beer started the melee are a**holes who should have been thrown out. But I can also say there were Canadian voices around me, well up for starting things long before the end of the game. I don't like people starting things either side.

My Denmark example is extreme, granted. But it happened and all it took was one person losing their sh**. My point was more about self control in general and how buying loads of drinks and calling people "legends" for showing none doesn't help. I think it would just lead to future problems, which could run a foul of Fifa, which could cost Canada.

[Most Scottish Man in Cdn.]

Saskatchewan....not just the birthplace of Canadian socialism but still talking common sense...respect.

[Mimglow]

I was in row 7 of 114, and by the 65th minute I knew things were going to get ugly. There were a couple of "taunters" near me who started spewing every hateful racist barb you could fling at a hispanic, and they didn't shut up even when some V's pointed out that they should tone down their rhetoric. In fact, the intervention almost started a fight.

As the V's grow, it is only natural that this ugly faction tries to find a home in our group. It will be a test of the Voyageur Movement to see how we deal with these hooligans. I'll admit I didn't do much to stop them, except my final action before bolting from the stadium after the final whistle was to try and talk down a few supporters next to me who kept saying they were looking for a fight. I don't know if it worked, as I got my girlfriend and little brother the hell out of there before things REALLY turned.

From my viewpoint, it was clear that the "trouble" was started by, if not V's, red-wearing Canada supporters in our section. Someone earlier mentioned that the Hondurans showed their class in how they handled a victory, but I would suggest that just as equally many Canadian supporters showed their class in how they handled a defeat.

Listen, I was just as pissed off that the stadium was pro-Honduran. Was I ready to fight some Hondurans to show them whose "house" it was? Sorry boys, my testosterone-filled bad judgment calls are years behind me.