Nats give BMO Field Turf a Yellow Card

[Gian-Luca]

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Soccer/article/417658

Cathal Kelly pretty well misrepresents the crowd at the Canada vs. Costa Rica match (suggesting it was far less than 9000 and pro-Tico, neither of which are true) but his message is clear.

Not sure I share his faith that Canada vs. Mexico in Edmonton will "easily sell out".

[Winnipeg Fury]

Mexico - Canada in Edmonton will really come down to whether the game means anything at that point. If we are already eliminated, I wouldn't expect much.

At this point I would expect a crowd of between 20,000-40,000, largely depending on how relevant the match is. A sell-out would be highly unlikely, although a massive pro-Canadian crowd is a certainty (if the game means anything).

As for BMO being 'the home of the national team,' that is a title that Edmonton's Commonwealth held for years. It means nothing.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Unless Montreal can really step up, BMO offers the best home support. I would want that as a player. Robert, Robinson, Brennan, Gueverra are all playing on the turf, I don't see why Stalteri is so special. He might grow to like turf after playing in Blackpool on a rainy January day -which appears to be his current future.

Then again, it would seem that if TFC have a decent run in the league and the cup, not to mention expansion next year, they could be moving from 15 home dates to closer to 25-30. If you could actually throw in another 5 national team games, I think the revenues would then justify a natural surface.

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Unless Montreal can really step up, BMO offers the best home support.

I think that the organisers are hoping that the hardcore fans from Toronto make the trek to Montreal.

It's also 7k tickets less to sell, and god knows the CSA has had trouble selling tickets.

If they draw 12k at SS, it'll look much better than 12k at BMO.

[Gian-Luca]

I still don't get why we would play Jamaica in Toronto & Honduras in Montreal, and not the other way round.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Unless Montreal can really step up, BMO offers the best home support. I would want that as a player.

BMO has a long way to go in showing it matches Edmonton for home support. TFC and the national team are two distinct products. BMO has had one senior game (CR) and it was far from being a huge success on any level. I hardly think that matches Edmonton's track record of support over the years at every level of the national team.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I still don't get why we would play Jamaica in Toronto & Honduras in Montreal, and not the other way round.

Exactly ! Especially when I didn't notice a huge Jamaican crowd for the match last year in Montreal.

How many remember the last time we played Jamaica in TO ? That was an exhibition and Canada received a rough ride from the crowd.

It simply makes no sense.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

Exactly ! Especially when I didn't notice a huge Jamaican crowd for the match last year in Montreal.

How many remember the last time we played Jamaica in TO ? That was an exhibition and Canada received a rough ride from the crowd.

It simply makes no sense.

There's a conflict with TFC for the game against Honduras, it can't be played in Toronto.

Since they wanted to give a game to Toronto, I guess they decided that Jamaica would be the one since Honduras was impossible and Mexico would bring more money in Edmonton and would likely have the same crowd problem as Jamaica.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

There's a conflict with TFC for the game against Honduras, it can't be played in Toronto.

Since they wanted to give a game to Toronto, I guess they decided that Jamaica would be the one since Honduras was impossible and Mexico would bring more money in Edmonton and would likely have the same crowd problem as Jamaica.

The obvious response to this, is if Jamaica is the only game to give BMO, then ideally BMO should be getting nothing.

It's fantastic that the CSA is listening to the players in terms of giving them the playing surface they want in June, but now they are arguably taking away crucial home-field advantage that could very well mean the difference between advancing to the Hex or elimination.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

The obvious response to this, is if Jamaica is the only game to give BMO, then ideally BMO should be getting nothing.

It's fantastic that the CSA is listening to the players in terms of giving them the playing surface they want in June, but now they are arguably taking away crucial home-field advantage that could very well mean the difference between advancing to the Hex or elimination.

I agree, but I guess they have their hands tied with those contractuals obligations.

BTW, the game against Jamaica is August 20 so it must be played in the east in Montreal or Toronto. Guess who's playing on August 20 in Montreal? The Impact.

Like I've said, I think this one was tricky for the CSA and they didn't have much options left (maybe St-John's but not realistic IMO).

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I agree, but I guess they have their hands tied with those contractuals obligations.

BTW, the game against Jamaica is August 20 so it must be played in the east in Montreal or Toronto. Guess who's playing on August 20 in Montreal? The Impact.

Like I've said, I think this one was tricky for the CSA and they didn't have much options left (maybe St-John's but not realistic IMO).

The contractual obligations are rubbish. Throw a B-team match to BMO vs Bahamas, if that's what we need to meet the contractual obligations. Play Bahamas three times at BMO with our B-team if need be.

Play Jamaica in Kingston, or Newfoundland. This is a critical match and we won't reach the Hex if we don't a have strong home field advantage similar to our opposition.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

The contractual obligations are rubbish. Throw a B-team match to BMO vs Bahamas, if that's what we need to meet the contractual obligations. Play Bahamas three times at BMO with our B-team if need be.

Play Jamaica in Kingston, or Newfoundland. This is a critical match and we won't reach the Hex if we don't a have strong home field advantage similar to our opposition.

Euh???

Throwing B game against Bahamas at BMO will result in big financial loss.

as for Kingston, not that far from Toronto and I'm pretty sure the crowd would have it's fair share of jamaicans in it.

What we need now is the CSA working closely with TFC and the Voyageurs to make sure the Jamaica game will have a pro Canada crowd.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Euh???

Throwing B game against Bahamas at BMO will result in big financial loss.

as for Kingston, not that far from Toronto and I'm pretty sure the crowd would have it's fair share of jamaicans in it.

What we need now is the CSA working closely with TFC and the Voyageurs to make sure the Jamaica game will have a pro Canada crowd.

There's going to be Jamaicans no matter where we play, but the vast majority would not leave TO to watch them in Kingston. Kingston would mean a strong Canadian crowd.

Decision's like putting Jamaica in TO are simply inexcusable. It's actions like this that internally stop us from reaching our maximum potential.

If contractual obligations are going to handicap us from reaching the Hex, then Bahamas at BMO becomes an investment, not a 'huge financial loss.'

And if we are toast by October 15, then you can kiss the big crowd good-bye, as opposed to having a massive pro-Canadian crowd.

[Free kick]

In the end, they did not listen to the players at all. The players wanted less travel time, good home support, and grass ( not the kind you smoke... as far as we know anyways).

As far as the travel time, the only game not played during the euro club season is the one in august and thats the one that only one that is being played in the east. Why not play the August game in the west ( eg.: Swangard).

The players and Mitchell wanted good home support. Nothing from this schedule assures that. They play Jamaica in Toronto where there is sizable Jamaican ex-pat population and Honduras in Montreal where there is a sizable Central american ex-pat population. As far as choosing Edmonton over Burnaby means you will get far less home support because you do not have a culture defined and created from having a club environment ( eg.: organized supporters, chants, core knowledgeable and on-going support rather than event oriented support). besides where else ( other than Commonwealth) can you fit all those mexicans who will want tickets. And it will be good for tourism in the local economy.

In truth its a smokescreen, the venue selection is designed to maximize attendance; home support be damned.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

As far as choosing Edmonton over Burnaby means you will get far less home support because you do not have a culture defined and created from having a club environment ( eg.: organized supporters, chants, core knowledgeable and on-going support rather than event oriented support).

In truth its a smokescreen, the venue selection is designed to maximize attendance; home support be damned.

It's never hurt Edmonton over the years, I don't see why it would now.

If that game in October is a key match in Canada progressing, they will have a huge pro-Canada crowd, by far the largest in Canada and also the most pro-Canadian.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

In the end, they did not listen to the players at all. The players wanted less travel time, good home support, and grass ( not the kind you smoke... as far as we know anyways).

As far as the travel time, the only game not played during the euro club season is the one in august and thats the one that only one that is being played in the east. Why not play the August game in the west ( eg.: Swangard).

No, the Euro club season will have started by that time. Players will be with their clubs by the end of July/early August for pre-season - that's why we are getting West Ham at BMO in late July. Plus the game is on a Wednesay, just like the first game was in August last time round.

No way do we play the Wednesday night August game out west with many our players flying in from Europe on the Sunday. That's what helped to kill us last time. The CSA is absolutely doing the right thing by not playing the August mid-week game out west.

As far as I can see, they have listened to the players with the grass & travel. The home support is up to us.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

In the end, they did not listen to the players at all. The players wanted less travel time, good home support, and grass ( not the kind you smoke... as far as we know anyways).

As far as the travel time, the only game not played during the euro club season is the one in august and thats the one that only one that is being played in the east. Why not play the August game in the west ( eg.: Swangard).

The players and Mitchell wanted good home support. Nothing from this schedule assures that. They play Jamaica in Toronto where there is sizable Jamaican ex-pat population and Honduras in Montreal where there is a sizable Central american ex-pat population. As far as choosing Edmonton over Burnaby means you will get far less home support because you do not have a culture defined and created from having a club environment ( eg.: organized supporters, chants, core knowledgeable and on-going support rather than event oriented support). besides where else ( other than Commonwealth) can you fit all those mexicans who will want tickets. And it will be good for tourism in the local economy.

In truth its a smokescreen, the venue selection is designed to maximize attendance; home support be damned.

So a few hundred fellas who like to stand up, swear at the opposition and throw beer cups on the field represent the 'core knowledgeable and on-going support' so sadly lacking in Edmonton?

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

BMO has a long way to go in showing it matches Edmonton for home support. TFC and the national team are two distinct products. BMO has had one senior game (CR) and it was far from being a huge success on any level. I hardly think that matches Edmonton's track record of support over the years at every level of the national team.

I drove 1300 km to see Canada/Austria and the organization at Commonwealth was horrendous. They should be ashamed. Edmonton's last MNT match saw 10k for Honduras. I agree with Daniel that 12k in 13k stadium looks better than 12k in 20k stadium. Well 10k in 60k stadium is ridiculous. I know many of the TFC supporters groups don't give a toss about their country, but at least there's some support infrastructure in TO. There's nothing in Edmonton. Not to mention flights these days from Vancouver don't cost much more to TO, for some bizarre reason.

[Winnipeg Fury]

Easy guys, we are all on the same team and want the same goal.

Time for a group hug !

[loyola]

The Edmonton game is good scheduling IMO because it's on Oct 15 and on the 11 we will be playing in Honduras. So it doesn't matter the game is played in the West. What we want to avoid is a situation like our 2004 home game against Guatemala with players flying from Europe to Vancouver 3 days prior to an important game.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

I drove 1300 km to see Canada/Austria and the organization at Commonwealth was horrendous. They should be ashamed. Edmonton's last MNT match saw 10k for Honduras. I agree with Daniel that 12k in 13k stadium looks better than 12k in 20k stadium. Well 10k in 60k stadium is ridiculous. I know many of the TFC supporters groups don't give a toss about their country, but at least there's some support infrastructure in TO. There's nothing in Edmonton. Not to mention flights these days from Vancouver don't cost much more to TO, for some bizarre reason.

Edmonton should be ashamed of having over 30,000 pro-Canadian fans for Canada's U-20 matches ? Tell me, how many fans did TO have for our U-20 team ? (I will let you count the thousands of Chilean fans because it still won't be close).

The senior men have had ONE game at BMO, and it was half full. To even attempt to compare that to Edmonton's long history of solid support is nothing short of audacious.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

Edmonton should be ashamed of having over 30,000 pro-Canadian fans for Canada's U-20 matches ? Tell me, how many fans did TO have for our U-20 team ? (I will let you count the thousands of Chilean fans because it still won't be close).

The senior men have had ONE game at BMO, and it was half full. To even attempt to compare that to Edmonton's long history of solid support is nothing short of audacious.

I'm pretty sure he meant that the Commonwealth staff should be ashamed.

What good is 30,000 tickets sold when 2/3 of them are stuck outside for more than half the game?

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

What good is 30,000 tickets sold when 2/3 of them are stuck outside for more than half the game?

Yes, and sadly that is not the first time. When Canada played T&T at Commonwealth in 2001, the crowd was somewhere in the vicinity of 27,000. At half-time there were still thousands outside trying to buy tickets. They could have easily had 35,000 for that match.

Nevertheless, another strong crowd that nobody in Canada can touch.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Thanks Rudi. That is what I meant for the most part, but actually the atmosphere was really bad too. Edmonton seems to have a lot of sports fans. Which is great. They do their civic duty and come out and support their events. However, WCQ isn't a big enough event clearly because Honduras only drew 10k. Vancouver was even worse for the last WCQ cycle, but I attended a U20 Brasil/Spain match and the atmosphere was absolutelty electric at the refurbished Swangard. Granted, that has a lot to do with the quality on the pitch, but I do think Toronto's support of TFC has shown that they should be given WCQ matches and I firmly believe the players should STFU about the turf and try to find a way to make it an advantage. I can understand a guy with bad knees not wanting to play 15-20 matches and train on the stuff, but we're talking 3 matches. Grow up Stalteri you wanker of a captain!

[loyola]

When you look at the CR friendly you have to consider "saturation" into your analysis. Toronto did have a crazy 2007 year with TFC and the 2007 U-20 WC. So it's not really surprising that a lot of people took a pass on a wednesday internationnal friendly. Maybe you want to compare the 12 k that showed for the Argentina U-20 friendly with the crowd that showed for the Czech Republic U-20 friendly?

Edmonton doesn't have that problem. I think Edmonton has been good in the past for our MNT but I've always thought that 10-20k in a 60k stadium doesn't look good. That's why I refer smaller venue for our team. But of course, Mexico is a great team to play in Edmonton IMO.